i would love to see this merged

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JonStahl JonStahl
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i would love to see this merged

Quintagroup just dropped
http://plone.org/products/collective.seobatching, which turns our
batch navgation urls from ugly query parameters to pretty subpaths.
Assuming their code is sane, this is a really nice little feature fix
that I'd love to see merged into Plone 4.

:jon

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Hanno Schlichting-4 Hanno Schlichting-4
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Re: i would love to see this merged

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 6:13 PM, Jon Stahl <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Quintagroup just dropped
> http://plone.org/products/collective.seobatching, which turns our
> batch navgation urls from ugly query parameters to pretty subpaths.
> Assuming their code is sane, this is a really nice little feature fix
> that I'd love to see merged into Plone 4.

I think the time for *any* feature is over for Plone 4.0 - or we'll
never release it.

Considering that there's PLIP's for revamping the content listings in
general, I'd say this should be done together.

On a more general note, the whole batching system needs an upgrade. I
think we have three different implementations of the underlying batch
functionality. The basic contract of the whole thing is also wrong. It
first does a complete catalog query and then wraps it in a batch,
which happens inside each template. It should defer the batch
construction to a central place, so different search backends can plug
in a more efficient system. For example with Solr, you currently
always have to get the entire result and only trim it down to the
batch size in the template. That's obviously quite inefficient.

Hanno

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JonStahl JonStahl
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Re: i would love to see this merged

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 9:30 AM, Hanno Schlichting <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 6:13 PM, Jon Stahl <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Quintagroup just dropped
>> http://plone.org/products/collective.seobatching, which turns our
>> batch navgation urls from ugly query parameters to pretty subpaths.
>> Assuming their code is sane, this is a really nice little feature fix
>> that I'd love to see merged into Plone 4.
>
> I think the time for *any* feature is over for Plone 4.0 - or we'll
> never release it.
>
> Considering that there's PLIP's for revamping the content listings in
> general, I'd say this should be done together.
>
> On a more general note, the whole batching system needs an upgrade. I
> think we have three different implementations of the underlying batch
> functionality. The basic contract of the whole thing is also wrong. It
> first does a complete catalog query and then wraps it in a batch,
> which happens inside each template. It should defer the batch
> construction to a central place, so different search backends can plug
> in a more efficient system. For example with Solr, you currently
> always have to get the entire result and only trim it down to the
> batch size in the template. That's obviously quite inefficient.

I agree that there should be a more generalized improvement to the
batching system, but I don't see why it is too late to apply a
superficial "quick fix" like this.  That doesn't prevent a deeper
rewrite later on.   If it makes more sense for Plone 4.1, that's fine.
 Mostly I wanted to make sure y'all had seen this, because it seems
like it is a simple fix to an obvious rough spot in our user
experience/SEO.

:jon

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Hanno Schlichting-4 Hanno Schlichting-4
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Re: i would love to see this merged

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 6:52 PM, Jon Stahl <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I agree that there should be a more generalized improvement to the
> batching system, but I don't see why it is too late to apply a
> superficial "quick fix" like this.

There is nothing like a "quick fix" ;)

Sorry, that this hit you, it was more of a general note, that unless
we never want to release 4.0, we need to stop adding anything to it.
And by anything I really mean anything which isn't a crucial bug fix.

For the specific feature I can come up with a whole list of questions,
which are nicely addressed during a PLIP review process.

Hanno

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Geir Bækholt-2 Geir Bækholt-2
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Re: i would love to see this merged

On 21-04-2010 19.01, Hanno Schlichting wrote:
> There is nothing like a "quick fix";)
>
> Sorry, that this hit you, it was more of a general note, that unless
> we never want to release 4.0, we need to stop adding anything to it.
> And by anything I really mean anything which isn't a crucial bug fix.
>
> For the specific feature I can come up with a whole list of questions,
> which are nicely addressed during a PLIP review process.

I agree with Hanno. Regardless of how useful something is, we cannot add
new features in the beta phase, — now that we finally have something
resembling a proper release process.
It looks like a great thing to propose in a plip for 4.1.

--
Geir Bækholt
www.jarn.com/baekholt


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JonStahl JonStahl
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Re: i would love to see this merged

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Geir Bækholt <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 21-04-2010 19.01, Hanno Schlichting wrote:
>> There is nothing like a "quick fix";)
>>
>> Sorry, that this hit you, it was more of a general note, that unless
>> we never want to release 4.0, we need to stop adding anything to it.
>> And by anything I really mean anything which isn't a crucial bug fix.
>>
>> For the specific feature I can come up with a whole list of questions,
>> which are nicely addressed during a PLIP review process.
>
> I agree with Hanno. Regardless of how useful something is, we cannot add
> new features in the beta phase, — now that we finally have something
> resembling a proper release process.
> It looks like a great thing to propose in a plip for 4.1.

Fair enough.  I'd like to see it in the core someday.

:jon

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Hedley Roos-2 Hedley Roos-2
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Re: i would love to see this merged

In reply to this post by Hanno Schlichting-4
> On a more general note, the whole batching system needs an upgrade. I
> think we have three different implementations of the underlying batch
> functionality. The basic contract of the whole thing is also wrong. It
> first does a complete catalog query and then wraps it in a batch,
> which happens inside each template. It should defer the batch
> construction to a central place, so different search backends can plug
> in a more efficient system. For example with Solr, you currently
> always have to get the entire result and only trim it down to the
> batch size in the template. That's obviously quite inefficient.
>

Hi Hanno

To expand on your general note I have created a branch
https://svn.plone.org/svn/plone/plone.app.content/branches/hedley-truly-lazy/
which works around the inefficiency by deferring the brain
construction to the latest possible moment. We use it in production
and all the tests pass.

Hedley

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Vitaliy Podoba-2 Vitaliy Podoba-2
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Re: i would love to see this merged

In reply to this post by JonStahl
Jon Stahl wrote:

> Quintagroup just dropped
> http://plone.org/products/collective.seobatching, which turns our
> batch navgation urls from ugly query parameters to pretty subpaths.
> Assuming their code is sane, this is a really nice little feature fix
> that I'd love to see merged into Plone 4.
>
> :jon
>
>
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Hi Jon,

I created seobatching package to use it at http://www.soberliving.com site.
Client wanted to have SEO friendly urls on his pages with batched items. To
have an idea on how those urls may look like take a look at this page
http://www.soberliving.com/blog (at the bottom of that page). batch-<num>
url components are configurable via portal_properties tool.

seobatching is not a try to generalize plone batching approaches, it's
rather very basic idea/prototype which is suitable for initial project
needs: remove b_start query parameter from batch urls. Thus it doesn't
handle any other batch query parameters so far.

In a few words: seobatching provides batch_macro alternative to have non-
query urls and appropriately registers traversal adapter to recognize
batching sub-paths in those urls. That's it.

That's why seobatching could only serve as a starting idea for possible
future PLIP for next Plone 4 series as for making batching urls more seo
friendly.

Anyway I'd like to help with implementing such a functionality for the next
plone releases.

By the way, I'm not working at Quintagroup anymore, and this package is not
from Quintagroup. I did it for www.soberliving.com project. :-)

Regards,
Vitaliy Podoba



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aclark aclark
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Re: i would love to see this merged

In reply to this post by JonStahl
On 2010-04-21, Jon Stahl <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Geir Bækholt <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 21-04-2010 19.01, Hanno Schlichting wrote:
>>> There is nothing like a "quick fix";)
>>>
>>> Sorry, that this hit you, it was more of a general note, that unless
>>> we never want to release 4.0, we need to stop adding anything to it.
>>> And by anything I really mean anything which isn't a crucial bug fix.
>>>
>>> For the specific feature I can come up with a whole list of questions,
>>> which are nicely addressed during a PLIP review process.
>>
>> I agree with Hanno. Regardless of how useful something is, we cannot add
>> new features in the beta phase, — now that we finally have something
>> resembling a proper release process.
>> It looks like a great thing to propose in a plip for 4.1.
>
> Fair enough.  I'd like to see it in the core someday.

Bring on the 4.1 plips! Has that process begun yet? That is to say, if I
get a wild feature hair, am I free to go to Trac and PLIP it for 4.1?
Just want to verify.

Thanks,

Alex



>
>:jon
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--
Alex Clark · http://aclark.net
Author of Plone 3.3 Site Administration · http://aclark.net/plone-site-admin


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Eric Steele (esteele) Eric Steele (esteele)
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Re: i would love to see this merged

On Apr 22, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Alex Clark wrote:
> Bring on the 4.1 plips! Has that process begun yet? That is to say, if I
> get a wild feature hair, am I free to go to Trac and PLIP it for 4.1?
> Just want to verify.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Alex

Certainly. We don't yet have a 4.1 milestone, but feel free to stick it in 4.x for now. There are already a good number of PLIP placeholders already.

Eric
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Alexander Limi Alexander Limi
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Re: i would love to see this merged

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Eric Steele <[hidden email]> wrote:
Certainly. We don't yet have a 4.1 milestone

Now we do. Get those PLIPs in! :)

--
Alexander Limi · http://limi.net

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