display menu in the edit dialog

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Dylan Jay Dylan Jay
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display menu in the edit dialog

Hi,

I just had yet another client accidentally click display and wonder how they broke their home page :(

As time goes on I think the current display menu placement is a mistake on many levels. Changing display is making a big change to the content and it's not even a POST request or a dialog. The menu gives no opportunity to explain what it does. No potential to preview either. Also, it's not really an everyday feature. You tend to pick one view and stick to it, or else the integrator picks one and doesn't want the editor to touch it.

I'm open to ideas on where to move it to?
My feeling is the edit dialog, either under settings or in the main tab (below the visual editor for a Page).

It could be perhaps be renamed to something more familiar like "template" or "layout".

Dylan Jay

---
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P: +61-2-9955-2830  +44-87-0392-7071 | linkedin.com/in/djay75



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Nathan Van Gheem-3 Nathan Van Gheem-3
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Re: display menu in the edit dialog

IMO, it should be renamed "Layout" and open an overlay. Additionally, "layouts" should be able to associated preview images with themselves to provide some general idea of what it's used for.

The edit form doesn't seem right to me.


On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:15 PM, Dylan Jay <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I just had yet another client accidentally click display and wonder how they broke their home page :(

As time goes on I think the current display menu placement is a mistake on many levels. Changing display is making a big change to the content and it's not even a POST request or a dialog. The menu gives no opportunity to explain what it does. No potential to preview either. Also, it's not really an everyday feature. You tend to pick one view and stick to it, or else the integrator picks one and doesn't want the editor to touch it.

I'm open to ideas on where to move it to?
My feeling is the edit dialog, either under settings or in the main tab (below the visual editor for a Page).

It could be perhaps be renamed to something more familiar like "template" or "layout".

Dylan Jay

---
www.pretagov.com - Secure SaaS for Government hosted locally.
P: <a href="tel:%2B61-2-9955-2830" value="+61299552830">+61-2-9955-2830  <a href="tel:%2B44-87-0392-7071" value="+448703927071">+44-87-0392-7071 | linkedin.com/in/djay75



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Nathan Van Gheem
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Dylan Jay Dylan Jay
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Re: display menu in the edit dialog

On 14 Feb 2014, at 3:54 pm, Nathan Van Gheem <[hidden email]> wrote:

> IMO, it should be renamed "Layout" and open an overlay. Additionally, "layouts" should be able to associated preview images with themselves to provide some general idea of what it's used for.

If it opens an overlay then it's no longer a dropdown and then where does it go? Next to sharing?

>
> The edit form doesn't seem right to me.

I didn't think so at first but it can radically change the how the item is presented which is different to things like sharing or changing state.
With the example of a collection, it goes hand in hand with the metadata selection. It also has more in common with presentation mode setting etc. They could be moved togeather into a Layout tab, under editing perhaps?

>
>
> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:15 PM, Dylan Jay <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I just had yet another client accidentally click display and wonder how they broke their home page :(
>
> As time goes on I think the current display menu placement is a mistake on many levels. Changing display is making a big change to the content and it's not even a POST request or a dialog. The menu gives no opportunity to explain what it does. No potential to preview either. Also, it's not really an everyday feature. You tend to pick one view and stick to it, or else the integrator picks one and doesn't want the editor to touch it.
>
> I'm open to ideas on where to move it to?
> My feeling is the edit dialog, either under settings or in the main tab (below the visual editor for a Page).
>
> It could be perhaps be renamed to something more familiar like "template" or "layout".
>
> Dylan Jay
>
> ---
> www.pretagov.com - Secure SaaS for Government hosted locally.
> P: +61-2-9955-2830  +44-87-0392-7071 | linkedin.com/in/djay75
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> UI mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-ui
>
>
>
> --
> Nathan Van Gheem
> Solutions Architect
> Wildcard Corp

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Rob Porter-2 Rob Porter-2
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Re: display menu in the edit dialog

In reply to this post by Nathan Van Gheem-3
I love this idea!  

Sent from my mobile device

On Feb 13, 2014, at 11:54 PM, Nathan Van Gheem <[hidden email]> wrote:

IMO, it should be renamed "Layout" and open an overlay. Additionally, "layouts" should be able to associated preview images with themselves to provide some general idea of what it's used for.

The edit form doesn't seem right to me.


On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:15 PM, Dylan Jay <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I just had yet another client accidentally click display and wonder how they broke their home page :(

As time goes on I think the current display menu placement is a mistake on many levels. Changing display is making a big change to the content and it's not even a POST request or a dialog. The menu gives no opportunity to explain what it does. No potential to preview either. Also, it's not really an everyday feature. You tend to pick one view and stick to it, or else the integrator picks one and doesn't want the editor to touch it.

I'm open to ideas on where to move it to?
My feeling is the edit dialog, either under settings or in the main tab (below the visual editor for a Page).

It could be perhaps be renamed to something more familiar like "template" or "layout".

Dylan Jay

---
www.pretagov.com - Secure SaaS for Government hosted locally.
P: <a href="tel:%2B61-2-9955-2830" value="+61299552830">+61-2-9955-2830  <a href="tel:%2B44-87-0392-7071" value="+448703927071">+44-87-0392-7071 | linkedin.com/in/djay75



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Nathan Van Gheem
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Wildcard Corp
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Re: display menu in the edit dialog

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On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:59 PM, Dylan Jay <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 14 Feb 2014, at 3:54 pm, Nathan Van Gheem <[hidden email]> wrote:

> IMO, it should be renamed "Layout" and open an overlay. Additionally, "layouts" should be able to associated preview images with themselves to provide some general idea of what it's used for.

If it opens an overlay then it's no longer a dropdown and then where does it go? Next to sharing?
Could even go before edit. Where it's placed it's a big deal. With the new menu I'm not sure there needs to be a distinction between buttons that have sub-menus and ones that do not. I'm not sure though. I'd need to look at it more.
 

>
> The edit form doesn't seem right to me.

I didn't think so at first but it can radically change the how the item is presented which is different to things like sharing or changing state.
With the example of a collection, it goes hand in hand with the metadata selection. It also has more in common with presentation mode setting etc. They could be moved togeather into a Layout tab, under editing perhaps?
Putting it into another tab goes too far. That means it'll take 3 clicks. The overlay method is still only 2 clicks--just more explicit.
 

>
>
> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:15 PM, Dylan Jay <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I just had yet another client accidentally click display and wonder how they broke their home page :(
>
> As time goes on I think the current display menu placement is a mistake on many levels. Changing display is making a big change to the content and it's not even a POST request or a dialog. The menu gives no opportunity to explain what it does. No potential to preview either. Also, it's not really an everyday feature. You tend to pick one view and stick to it, or else the integrator picks one and doesn't want the editor to touch it.
>
> I'm open to ideas on where to move it to?
> My feeling is the edit dialog, either under settings or in the main tab (below the visual editor for a Page).
>
> It could be perhaps be renamed to something more familiar like "template" or "layout".
>
> Dylan Jay
>
> ---
> www.pretagov.com - Secure SaaS for Government hosted locally.
> P: <a href="tel:%2B61-2-9955-2830" value="+61299552830">+61-2-9955-2830  <a href="tel:%2B44-87-0392-7071" value="+448703927071">+44-87-0392-7071 | linkedin.com/in/djay75
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> UI mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-ui
>
>
>
> --
> Nathan Van Gheem
> Solutions Architect
> Wildcard Corp




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Solutions Architect
Wildcard Corp

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David Glick (Plone) David Glick (Plone)
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Re: display menu in the edit dialog

In reply to this post by Dylan Jay
On 2/14/14, 5:15 AM, Dylan Jay wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I just had yet another client accidentally click display and wonder how they broke their home page :(
>
> As time goes on I think the current display menu placement is a mistake on many levels. Changing display is making a big change to the content and it's not even a POST request or a dialog. The menu gives no opportunity to explain what it does. No potential to preview either. Also, it's not really an everyday feature. You tend to pick one view and stick to it, or else the integrator picks one and doesn't want the editor to touch it.
>
> I'm open to ideas on where to move it to?
> My feeling is the edit dialog, either under settings or in the main tab (below the visual editor for a Page).
>
> It could be perhaps be renamed to something more familiar like "template" or "layout".
>
The folks working on the toolbar here in Cologne used Guido's time
machine and solved this yesterday by moving the Display menu, Manage
Portlets links, and Actions menu into a secondary menu that opens off
the main bar. I think it's a good way of demoting some things that are
used less commonly.

(Cut/copy/paste will be removed from the actions menu, so it will mainly
be a place for add-ons to add custom actions.)

David
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espen espen
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Re: display menu in the edit dialog

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> Hi,
>
> I just had yet another client accidentally click display and wonder how they broke their home page :(


could it somehow be possible to do the same as one does with adding content: Restrict Views.

To explain:
• When you have a folder where you can add page, image, news item etc. I often choose ‘restrict’ to for example only images, to  prevent people from adding pages to «image folder»
• When there is a folder (or some content) and you have 5-10 different views it would be nice to restrict these.
 
For example: after you have made the gallery folder, you restrict the views to ‘gallery’ and ‘easyslider’
when you have added the ‘Files’ folder, you restrict the view to ‘table’  and ‘listing'
When you have added a ‘default page’ to a folder, you restrict the view to ‘default page’

Espen

>
> As time goes on I think the current display menu placement is a mistake on many levels. Changing display is making a big change to the content and it's not even a POST request or a dialog. The menu gives no opportunity to explain what it does. No potential to preview either. Also, it's not really an everyday feature. You tend to pick one view and stick to it, or else the integrator picks one and doesn't want the editor to touch it.
>
> I'm open to ideas on where to move it to?
> My feeling is the edit dialog, either under settings or in the main tab (below the visual editor for a Page).
>
> It could be perhaps be renamed to something more familiar like "template" or "layout".
>
> Dylan Jay
>
> ---
> www.pretagov.com - Secure SaaS for Government hosted locally.
> P: +61-2-9955-2830  +44-87-0392-7071 | linkedin.com/in/djay75
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> UI mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-ui

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David Glick (Plone) David Glick (Plone)
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Re: display menu in the edit dialog

Another feature that would sometimes be nice is to give unauthenticated
users the ability to choose between several available views, for a
particular item. (e.g. switching between listing and calendar views of a
collection of events)

On 2/14/14, 6:16 PM, Espen Moe-Nilssen wrote:

>> Hi,
>>
>> I just had yet another client accidentally click display and wonder how they broke their home page :(
>
> could it somehow be possible to do the same as one does with adding content: Restrict Views.
>
> To explain:
> • When you have a folder where you can add page, image, news item etc. I often choose ‘restrict’ to for example only images, to  prevent people from adding pages to «image folder»
> • When there is a folder (or some content) and you have 5-10 different views it would be nice to restrict these.
>    
> For example: after you have made the gallery folder, you restrict the views to ‘gallery’ and ‘easyslider’
> when you have added the ‘Files’ folder, you restrict the view to ‘table’  and ‘listing'
> When you have added a ‘default page’ to a folder, you restrict the view to ‘default page’
>
> Espen
>
>> As time goes on I think the current display menu placement is a mistake on many levels. Changing display is making a big change to the content and it's not even a POST request or a dialog. The menu gives no opportunity to explain what it does. No potential to preview either. Also, it's not really an everyday feature. You tend to pick one view and stick to it, or else the integrator picks one and doesn't want the editor to touch it.
>>
>> I'm open to ideas on where to move it to?
>> My feeling is the edit dialog, either under settings or in the main tab (below the visual editor for a Page).
>>
>> It could be perhaps be renamed to something more familiar like "template" or "layout".
>>
>> Dylan Jay
>>
>> ---
>> www.pretagov.com - Secure SaaS for Government hosted locally.
>> P: +61-2-9955-2830  +44-87-0392-7071 | linkedin.com/in/djay75
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> UI mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-ui
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-ui

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Re: display menu in the edit dialog

On 15 Feb 2014, at 3:28 pm, David Glick (Plone) <[hidden email]> wrote:

Another feature that would sometimes be nice is to give unauthenticated users the ability to choose between several available views, for a particular item. (e.g. switching between listing and calendar views of a collection of events)

On 2/14/14, 6:16 PM, Espen Moe-Nilssen wrote:
Hi,

I just had yet another client accidentally click display and wonder how they broke their home page :(

could it somehow be possible to do the same as one does with adding content: Restrict Views.

To explain:
• When you have a folder where you can add page, image, news item etc. I often choose ‘restrict’ to for example only images, to  prevent people from adding pages to «image folder»
• When there is a folder (or some content) and you have 5-10 different views it would be nice to restrict these.
  For example: after you have made the gallery folder, you restrict the views to ‘gallery’ and ‘easyslider’
when you have added the ‘Files’ folder, you restrict the view to ‘table’  and ‘listing'
When you have added a ‘default page’ to a folder, you restrict the view to ‘default page’

We could do that but I think it solves a slightly different problem. I think it's fair for my clients for example to be able to change the view. I just want it to be obvious to them thats what they are doing.

Maybe it easiest to just wait for folderish content. I did some more work on it on the weekend and it's working well. With the tiles/shortcodes approach we don't really need a display menu at all, at least not for built in types. Default pages go away and folder and collections views are handled by contentlistingtile and can only be changed by editing the tile itself (or changing the shortcode manually). I guess that does mean that anyone editing a page with those shortcodes could screw up the display by accidentally deleting a single character, but at least they have to click "edit" and "save" to do this. 

For those interested the current tile/shortcode syntax looks like this. The icon on the button right of the toolbar adds/edits a tile/shortcode. A preview of what the tile will render is kept between the start and end of the shortcode.



I'm thinking how to make it shorter still. Maybe something like the following by changing the view name and assuming the final part of the operator is unique for a given field. 

[tile.listing view_template="listing_view" path:relativePath="."]
There are currently no items in this folder.
[/tile.listing]

Which could be further shortened by guessing we can prepend "tile." onto the view name and by not showing anything that is the default. Then it would become

[listing path="."]
There are currently no items in this folder.
[/listing]



Espen

As time goes on I think the current display menu placement is a mistake on many levels. Changing display is making a big change to the content and it's not even a POST request or a dialog. The menu gives no opportunity to explain what it does. No potential to preview either. Also, it's not really an everyday feature. You tend to pick one view and stick to it, or else the integrator picks one and doesn't want the editor to touch it.

I'm open to ideas on where to move it to?
My feeling is the edit dialog, either under settings or in the main tab (below the visual editor for a Page).

It could be perhaps be renamed to something more familiar like "template" or "layout".

Dylan Jay

---
www.pretagov.com - Secure SaaS for Government hosted locally.
P: +61-2-9955-2830  +44-87-0392-7071 | linkedin.com/in/djay75



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