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Upcoming changes to plone.org

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Alexander Limi Alexander Limi
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Upcoming changes to plone.org

Hi all,

Wanted to give you a heads-up on some changes we will probably push live on plone.org in the near future — and get your feedback before we do! :)


NEW LAYOUT FOR THE DOCUMENTATION FRONT PAGE:

The reasons for the change, and what this means:
  • Less "wall of text", more obvious where to start.
  • Stronger focus on "New to Plone" section.
  • New second-level navigation to highlight FAQ, Knowledge Base and Error Reference, reinforced later in the front page, since navigation is often tuned out by first-time visitors.
  • Prominent book display in the sidebar to show that there are many books available for Plone.
  • Sidebar bubble with "Get Help" that leads to the Support section.
  • Less intimidating — and good looking! (I might be biased ;)

NEW LAYOUT/APPROACH FOR THE KNOWLEDGE BASE:

The reasons for the change, and what this means:
  • The old page is close to unusable, and very intimidating — it's just page after page of links that lead to more pages with even more links. :)
  • The new approach pulls out the main topics, and lists the starred KB articles in each section. This means that you get the most valuable content up front, but you can still dig into the full list of community-contributed knowledge base articles.
  • The main interface with the KB should really be search, but we still want to support browsing — which is why we use an accordion to show a limited set of content at the same time. The main goal is to give you a flavor of what kind of content exists in the different sections, and to let you investigate deeper if you want — or ust go straight for the search box.
  • There's still some work to do on adjusting permissions, but (unless I'm wrong) the idea for contributing to the knowledge base is:
    • Anyone that has commit privileges to Plone or the Collective can automatically add and edit content without further approval.
    • You can also ask for permission to edit content separately if you aren't already in one of these groups. The Docs team will add you to a contributor group.
    • Anyone should be able to add a new knowledge base article, but it'll require an initial review before you are allowed to have your first article published. Once you have had one article approved, you have permissions to add and edit articles in the knowledge base. (I don't think this is currently the case, but we'd like to lower the barrier here as much as we can).

NEW LAYOUT & APPROACH FOR THE SUPPORT SECTION:

The reasons for the change, and what this means:
  • The old page is really hard to navigate. Again, classic "wall of text", hard to find the link you're looking for.
  • We're putting an experiment with using Stack Overflow as the main support mechanism, alongside the Chat Room.
  • We're making the Commercial Support option very prominent, which will hopefully get more people in touch with the Plone companies out there when they need them. We're also busy updating and improving the Provider and Site listings now that they have been moved over to plone.org from plone.net. We're excited to make this content integrate better with the rest of plone.org!
  • Local User Groups and Training are more visible in the new layout.
  • We are deprioritizing the links to Nabble and the mailing lists on purpose, since it's a pretty horrible first experience for someone looking for help. We're keeping the links in the footer — and of course we're not removing or shutting down any of the lists — but most people are looking for help, not the Plone Core Developer list or the Internationalization list. These are mostly relevant once you've been using Plone for a while, and at that point you'll either go looking for them, or have them pointed out to you by others anyway.
Using Stack Overflow for Plone support is an experiment we want to do for 2-3 months and evaluate how well it worked at the end of it. The benefits we're looking for specifically are:
  • Convenience: Mailing lists and Nabble subscription processes are time-consuming and complicated if you want to ask a quick question. Stack Overflow lets you log in with your OpenID, Google, Facebook, Yahoo, etc. account.
  • Reputation management: On a mailing list, it's hard to tell whether the advice you just got was from someone who has been around in the Plone community for a while, or someone that probably has no idea what they're talking about. Stack Overflow has a reputation and badge system that gives you a pretty good idea of who to listen to.
  • Avoid getting the same questions all the time: It's pretty common that people ask the same questions on plone-users every few weeks. Stack Overflow lets you vote up common/useful questions, and edit the entries over time. E.g. if the approach to how you integrate LDAP with Plone changes, you can edit the highest rated question on LDAP to reflect the new approach. Another very useful feature is duplicate detection; if you try to ask a new question on a particular subject, it will do a search in the background to dig up other questions that look similar, so you may not have to post your question at all.
  • Visibility to other ecosystems: There's a lot of frustrated .NET and Java programmers on Stack Overflow, and a lot of them are working with CMSes that we can outclass any day. Showing that there's a vibrant, healthy and helpful Plone community in a system that has other developers has a lot of benefits for our visibility and future recruiting. Plone has a tendency to stay within its own circle, and that's something we want to change.
  • Support notification about answers to your question without having to subscribe to the whole thing: Stack Overflow lets you be notified via email when there's an answer to your question.
  • Make it easier to spend a couple of minutes every day answering questions: Even if you're busy, it should be possible to swing by your RSS reader or the web site for a few minutes each day, and pick an unanswered question to help out with. I know that most of the core Plone developers are not subscribed to plone-users anymore, because it ends up just collecting in a mail folder somewhere.
To get off to a good start with Stack Overflow, we should probably do two things:
  • Identify 10-20 commonly asked and answered questions from plone-users, and post them — and add answers.
  • Please add http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag/plone to your RSS reader — at least for the next couple of weeks — so we get off to a good start with answering questions there.
We hope you're as excited about these changes as we are! Let us know what you think, and if you find any issues with the new templates.

Special thanks to Iain for some of the designs, and the Cioppino sprinters (Trish, Tyler, David Glick, Steve McMahon, Alex Clark) for getting this long overdue refresh started!

--
Alexander Limi · http://twitter.com/limi · http://limi.net




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The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
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Alexander Limi · http://limi.net

Martin Aspeli Martin Aspeli
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Re: Upcoming changes to plone.org

Hi Alex,


> NEW LAYOUT FOR THE DOCUMENTATION FRONT PAGE:
>
> Current: http://plone.org/documentation
> New: http://plone.org/documentation/ndocs

Looks really good!

> NEW LAYOUT/APPROACH FOR THE KNOWLEDGE BASE:
>
> Current: http://plone.org/documentation/kb
> New: http://plone.org/documentation/ndocs1

Ditto :)

> Anyone that has commit privileges to Plone or the Collective can
> automatically add and edit content without further approval.
> You can also ask for permission to edit content separately if you aren't
> already in one of these groups. The Docs team will add you to a contributor
> group.
> Anyone should be able to add a new knowledge base article, but it'll require
> an initial review before you are allowed to have your first article
> published. Once you have had one article approved, you have permissions to
> add and edit articles in the knowledge base. (I don't think this is
> currently the case, but we'd like to lower the barrier here as much as we
> can).
>

+1 to this approach. Not sure how hard it is to do the last one, but
certainly the right approach.

 NEW LAYOUT & APPROACH FOR THE SUPPORT SECTION:
>
> Current: http://plone.org/support
> New: http://plone.org/support/support_view

Also very nice.

Small quibble: In Chrome at least, the Commercial Support and
Reporting Bugs sections sections do not highlight links in green when
you hover over them, but the middle two sections do. Also, "Join the
chatroom" becomes green-on-green when you hover over it.

> We're putting an experiment with using Stack Overflow as the main support
> mechanism, alongside the Chat Room.

I've come around to this idea quite strongly. I think it's a lot more
appropriate for the audience than the plone-user list, and a lot more
accessible (the Nabble signup process is insane, for example). We
should make it clear this is about supplementing/replacing plone-user,
not any of the other lists, though!

> We're making the Commercial Support option very prominent, which will
> hopefully get more people in touch with the Plone companies out there when
> they need them. We're also busy updating and improving the Provider and Site
> listings now that they have been moved over to plone.org from plone.net.
> We're excited to make this content integrate better with the rest of
> plone.org!

I think this is the right time to do this.
http://plone.org/support/providers looks a bit unpolished at the
moment, though.

> Using Stack Overflow for Plone support is an experiment we want to do for
> 2-3 months and evaluate how well it worked at the end of it. The benefits
> we're looking for specifically are:

I joke with my (Java) team that we do SODD - Stackoverflow Driven
Development. It is a very good experience for people casually asking
questions and looking for existing answers, and the signal-to-noise
ratio is generally much better than on mailing lists.

A possible downside is that the built-in Stackoverflow search really
sucks, but if you go to "advanced search" and search with Google, you
generally find what you need.

If we are to succeed with this, we need to hound experienced people
onto Stackoverflow. Some will prefer to stick with mailing lists, of
course. I think most core developers will find mailing lists
preferable, but we need to think about optimising for people asking
questions and looking for information. In reality, plone-user isn't
read by as many core developers as we should anyway.

I'll go ahead with a good example and try to check in on Stackoverflow
once a day.

> Visibility to other ecosystems: There's a lot of frustrated .NET and Java
> programmers on Stack Overflow, and a lot of them are working with CMSes that
> we can outclass any day. Showing that there's a vibrant, healthy and helpful
> Plone community in a system that has other developers has a lot of benefits
> for our visibility and future recruiting. Plone has a tendency to stay
> within its own circle, and that's something we want to change.

This is a great point. Stackoverflow is huge outside our community. I
use it a fair amount for questions about other technologies,
especially where I'm a casual user (and so not interested in signing
up to a mailing list).

> Make it easier to spend a couple of minutes every day answering questions:
> Even if you're busy, it should be possible to swing by your RSS reader or
> the web site for a few minutes each day, and pick an unanswered question to
> help out with. I know that most of the core Plone developers are not
> subscribed to plone-users anymore, because it ends up just collecting in a
> mail folder somewhere.

There are already some very good questions there. :)

> To get off to a good start with Stack Overflow, we should probably do two
> things:
>
> Identify 10-20 commonly asked and answered questions from plone-users, and
> post them — and add answers.
> Please add http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag/plone to your RSS reader — at
> least for the next couple of weeks — so we get off to a good start with
> answering questions there.

+1

Martin

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
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Re: Upcoming changes to plone.org

In reply to this post by Alexander Limi
On 19 February 2011 10:47, Alexander Limi <[hidden email]> wrote:
> NEW LAYOUT & APPROACH FOR THE SUPPORT SECTION:

Love the new support page, but I think we need to make it clear that
people have to tag their questions with 'Plone' – clicking 'Ask a
question from http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/plone doesn't
set this by default (though it does require that a tag is added.)

Laurence

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
_______________________________________________
Plone-developers mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers
Dylan Jay Dylan Jay
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Re: Upcoming changes to plone.org

In reply to this post by Alexander Limi
On 19/02/2011, at 9:47 PM, Alexander Limi wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Wanted to give you a heads-up on some changes we will probably push  
> live on plone.org in the near future — and get your feedback before  
> we do! :)

Pretty awesome. +1.

> NEW LAYOUT/APPROACH FOR THE KNOWLEDGE BASE:
> • Current: http://plone.org/documentation/kb
> • New: http://plone.org/documentation/ndocs1

Looks pretty slick. It would be great though to de-emphasise articles  
that aren't tagged for the latest plone release. Some articles linked  
are out of date and some might not be updated.

In addition perhaps articles that aren't tagged plone4 could have a  
warning noting they don't apply to the current version in the same way  
products in the PSC now do?

To encourage users to login and update the content perhaps a "edit  
this" link even when not logged in. It will make it even more obvious  
this is a wiki and that it's every ones responsibility to update it.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers
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Re: Upcoming changes to plone.org

In reply to this post by Martin Aspeli
On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 13:21, Martin Aspeli <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I'll go ahead with a good example and try to check in on Stackoverflow
> once a day.

Use the RSS feed for this, it's a much more convenient way to keep
track of a tag on SO. Next to the plone tag, I also keep an eye on
'buildout' and 'zope'.

--
Martijn Pieters

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
_______________________________________________
Plone-developers mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers
AnthonyG AnthonyG
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Re: Upcoming changes to plone.org

In reply to this post by Laurence Rowe

On 19/02/2011 12:55, Laurence Rowe wrote:

> On 19 February 2011 10:47, Alexander Limi<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> NEW LAYOUT&  APPROACH FOR THE SUPPORT SECTION:
>
> Love the new support page, but I think we need to make it clear that
> people have to tag their questions with 'Plone' – clicking 'Ask a
> question from http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/plone doesn't
> set this by default (though it does require that a tag is added.)
>
> Laurence
>

We could try and create a dedicated Plone stack exchange site

http://area51.stackexchange.com/faq

Wordpress have one already and Drupal has one proposed

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
_______________________________________________
Plone-developers mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers
Hanno Schlichting-4 Hanno Schlichting-4
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Re: Upcoming changes to plone.org

On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 7:31 PM, Anthony Gerrard
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> We could try and create a dedicated Plone stack exchange site
>
> http://area51.stackexchange.com/faq

But that would defeat the purpose of cross-pollination with other
communities and exposure to other developers.

We get questions about Python, WSGI, HTML5, CMIS, facebook connect,
etc. in the context of Plone. All of which should be asked and
answered, but they apply to more than just Plone. If questions apply
to multiple topics, you should be able to tag them and expose them to
multiple audiences without switching websites.

Hanno

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
_______________________________________________
Plone-developers mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers
Martin Aspeli Martin Aspeli
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Re: Upcoming changes to plone.org

In reply to this post by AnthonyG
On 19 February 2011 18:31, Anthony Gerrard <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 19/02/2011 12:55, Laurence Rowe wrote:
>> On 19 February 2011 10:47, Alexander Limi<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>> NEW LAYOUT&  APPROACH FOR THE SUPPORT SECTION:
>>
>> Love the new support page, but I think we need to make it clear that
>> people have to tag their questions with 'Plone' – clicking 'Ask a
>> question from http://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/plone doesn't
>> set this by default (though it does require that a tag is added.)
>>
>> Laurence
>>
>
> We could try and create a dedicated Plone stack exchange site
>
> http://area51.stackexchange.com/faq
>
> Wordpress have one already and Drupal has one proposed

I was thinking about this. I do wonder whether it'd be better to stick
to main Stackoverflow so that people discover Plone questions more
easily, though? People will probably use Stackoverflow anyway, so we'd
need to at least keep an eye on that and move questions.

I think if SO defaulted the tag to 'plone' when coming form the
../questions//tagged/plone page, that'd be ideal.

Martin

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
_______________________________________________
Plone-developers mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers
johannes raggam johannes raggam
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Re: Upcoming changes to plone.org

In reply to this post by Alexander Limi
all those changes are very nice! very clean and nice design and the
stackoverflow idea is great!


some thoughts though:

- there is some redundancy between the developer manual, the plone
community developer reference and the knowledge base. thats a bit too
much places for the same type of content IMO. the developer manual as an
official section is great. but for the other two, i personally prefer
the collective.developermanual, since it reflects the way we work as a
community much better and it's fast and easy to contribute. the
knowledge base becomes overtaken by it, in my opinion. maybe we should
merge those two?

- important: to tag all documentation with the info, for which plone
version it was written for. it's ok, if a document applies to more
versions than the one, it was originally written for. but this
information is important as a hint, that a document might be outdated.

- even stackoverflow (great idea!) might probably obsolete the
plone-users list, the mailinglists would still be the best place for
lengthy discussions.

cheers,
,,,johannes raggam



--
johannes raggam / thet
python plone zope development
http://johannes.raggam.co.at/
mailto:[hidden email]
http://bluedynamics.com/


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
_______________________________________________
Plone-developers mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers
Hanno Schlichting-4 Hanno Schlichting-4
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Re: Upcoming changes to plone.org

In reply to this post by Martin Aspeli
On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Martin Aspeli <[hidden email]> wrote:
> If we are to succeed with this, we need to hound experienced people
> onto Stackoverflow. Some will prefer to stick with mailing lists, of
> course. I think most core developers will find mailing lists
> preferable, but we need to think about optimising for people asking
> questions and looking for information. In reality, plone-user isn't
> read by as many core developers as we should anyway.
>
> I'll go ahead with a good example and try to check in on Stackoverflow
> once a day.

I'm a longtime plone-users (or generally support mailing lists)
abstainer, but I've added the stackoverflow RSS feed to my feed list.

Cannot promise answering anything, but at least I'll try to watch it :)

Hanno

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
_______________________________________________
Plone-developers mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers
Ed Manlove-2 Ed Manlove-2
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Re: Upcoming changes to plone.org

In reply to this post by Alexander Limi
A couple of minor thoughts
> *
> NEW LAYOUT FOR THE DOCUMENTATION FRONT PAGE:*
>  
Should the "additional resources" be placed above "developing with
plone"? I don't know the answer to this but what I am wondering is are
the additional resources more helpful to our non-developers community
members and should this be seen first?
> *
> NEW LAYOUT/APPROACH FOR THE KNOWLEDGE BASE:*
>
>  
More so with the knowledge base categories I think they should be
reorder with general topics first (Basic Use, Installation,
Configuration and Setup), then specialized topics (Managing Content,
Visual Design, Navigation, Users and Permissions, Internalization and
Localization), and finally the community/get involved topics (Developing
for Plone, Contributing to Plone.org).

As you can see my focus is towards new users and non-developers users
and providing information important to them upfront and first.  I tend
to think that developers, of which I am one, will take more time looking
for what they want/need.  Thus we provide everyone the information they
need without frustrating those who new to Plone and don't know where to
look for information.

Ed


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
_______________________________________________
Plone-developers mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers
JonStahl JonStahl
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Re: Upcoming changes to plone.org

In reply to this post by Martin Aspeli
On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 10:47 AM, Martin Aspeli
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 19 February 2011 18:31, Anthony Gerrard <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 19/02/2011 12:55, Laurence Rowe wrote:
>>
>> We could try and create a dedicated Plone stack exchange site
>>
>> http://area51.stackexchange.com/faq
>>
>> Wordpress have one already and Drupal has one proposed
>
> I was thinking about this. I do wonder whether it'd be better to stick
> to main Stackoverflow so that people discover Plone questions more
> easily, though? People will probably use Stackoverflow anyway, so we'd
> need to at least keep an eye on that and move questions.
>
> I think if SO defaulted the tag to 'plone' when coming form the
> ../questions//tagged/plone page, that'd be ideal.

Unfortunately, I dont' think our community is anywhere big and active
enough to convince the SO folks to launch a StackExchange just for us.
 My understanding is that they're pretty selective about that.  So I
don't think this option is really on the table.

:jon

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
_______________________________________________
Plone-developers mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers
Dylan Jay Dylan Jay
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Re: Upcoming changes to plone.org

In reply to this post by johannes raggam
On 20/02/2011, at 6:17 AM, Johannes Raggam wrote:

> all those changes are very nice! very clean and nice design and the
> stackoverflow idea is great!
>
>
> some thoughts though:
>
> - there is some redundancy between the developer manual, the plone
> community developer reference and the knowledge base. thats a bit too
> much places for the same type of content IMO. the developer manual  
> as an
> official section is great. but for the other two, i personally prefer
> the collective.developermanual, since it reflects the way we work as a
> community much better and it's fast and easy to contribute. the
> knowledge base becomes overtaken by it, in my opinion. maybe we should
> merge those two?

Redundancy I agree is a big issue. but I think it's more appropriate  
that the developer manual and the community plone developer manual  
merge. The community manual is meant to be a more maintained and up to  
date but still "official" by crowdsourcing.
Part of the KB has fallen out of date is that the permissions still  
haven't been fixed up to let anyone with collective access edit it.  
Once that happens we should see it become more relevant. Hopefully see  
the really good content from KB articles being moved into the  
community manual and replaced by a link.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers
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Re: Upcoming changes to plone.org

In reply to this post by Alexander Limi
On 2/19/11 5:47 AM, Alexander Limi wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Wanted to give you a heads-up on some changes we will probably push live
> on plone.org <http://plone.org> in the near future — and get your
> feedback before we do! :)


Very nice work! Thanks for putting so much time and effort into this.


>
> *
> NEW LAYOUT FOR THE DOCUMENTATION FRONT PAGE:*
>
>     * Current: http://plone.org/documentation
>     * New: http://plone.org/documentation/ndocs
>
> /The reasons for the change, and what this means:/*
> *
>
>     * Less "wall of text", more obvious where to start.
>     * Stronger focus on "New to Plone" section.
>     * New second-level navigation to highlight FAQ, Knowledge Base and
>       Error Reference, reinforced later in the front page, since
>       navigation is often tuned out by first-time visitors.
>     * Prominent book display in the sidebar to show that there are many
>       books available for Plone.


What's the criteria for book listings? I'd suggest we do chronological,
unless some other reasonably fair way can be implemented (E.g. I suspect
if given the choice, every book author would list their book first ;-)).

Alternatively, maybe something like cioppino.twothumbs could be applied
to books.


Alex



>     * Sidebar bubble with "Get Help" that leads to the Support section.
>     * Less intimidating — and good looking! (I might be biased ;)
>
> *
> NEW LAYOUT/APPROACH FOR THE KNOWLEDGE BASE:*
>
>     * Current: http://plone.org/documentation/kb
>     * New: http://plone.org/documentation/ndocs1
>
> /The reasons for the change, and what this means:/*
> *
>
>     * The old page is close to unusable, and very intimidating — it's
>       just page after page of links that lead to more pages with even
>       more links. :)
>     * The new approach pulls out the main topics, and *lists the starred
>       KB articles in each section*. This means that you get the most
>       valuable content up front, but you can still dig into the full
>       list of community-contributed knowledge base articles.
>     * The main interface with the KB should really be search, but we
>       still want to support browsing — which is why we use an accordion
>       to show a limited set of content at the same time. The main goal
>       is to give you a flavor of what kind of content exists in the
>       different sections, and to let you investigate deeper if you want
>       — or ust go straight for the search box.
>     * There's still some work to do on adjusting permissions, but
>       (unless I'm wrong) the idea for contributing to the knowledge base is:
>           o Anyone that has commit privileges to Plone or the Collective
>             can automatically add and edit content without further approval.
>           o You can also ask for permission to edit content separately
>             if you aren't already in one of these groups. The Docs team
>             will add you to a contributor group.
>           o Anyone should be able to add a new knowledge base article,
>             but it'll require an initial review before you are allowed
>             to have your first article published. Once you have had one
>             article approved, you have permissions to add and edit
>             articles in the knowledge base. (I don't think this is
>             currently the case, but we'd like to lower the barrier here
>             as much as we can).
>
> *
> NEW LAYOUT & APPROACH FOR THE SUPPORT SECTION:*
>
>     * Current: http://plone.org/support
>     * New: http://plone.org/support/support_view
>
> /The reasons for the change, and what this means:/*
> *
>
>     * The old page is really hard to navigate. Again, classic "wall of
>       text", hard to find the link you're looking for.
>     * We're putting an experiment with using Stack Overflow as the main
>       support mechanism, alongside the Chat Room.
>     * We're making the Commercial Support option very prominent, which
>       will hopefully get more people in touch with the Plone companies
>       out there when they need them. We're also busy updating and
>       improving the Provider and Site listings now that they have been
>       moved over to plone.org <http://plone.org> from plone.net
>       <http://plone.net>. We're excited to make this content integrate
>       better with the rest of plone.org <http://plone.org>!
>     * Local User Groups and Training are more visible in the new layout.
>     * We /are/ deprioritizing the links to Nabble and the mailing lists
>       on purpose, since it's a pretty horrible first experience for
>       someone looking for help. We're keeping the links in the footer —
>       and of course we're not removing or shutting down any of the lists
>       — but most people are looking for help, not the Plone Core
>       Developer list or the Internationalization list. These are mostly
>       relevant once you've been using Plone for a while, and at that
>       point you'll either go looking for them, or have them pointed out
>       to you by others anyway.
>
> Using Stack Overflow for Plone support is *an experiment we want to do
> for 2-3 months *and evaluate how well it worked at the end of it. The
> benefits we're looking for specifically are:
>
>     * *Convenience:* Mailing lists and Nabble subscription processes are
>       time-consuming and complicated if you want to ask a quick
>       question. Stack Overflow lets you log in with your OpenID, Google,
>       Facebook, Yahoo, etc. account.
>     * *Reputation management: *On a mailing list, it's hard to tell
>       whether the advice you just got was from someone who has been
>       around in the Plone community for a while, or someone that
>       probably has no idea what they're talking about. Stack Overflow
>       has a reputation and badge system that gives you a pretty good
>       idea of who to listen to.
>     * *Avoid getting the same questions all the time:* It's pretty
>       common that people ask the same questions on plone-users every few
>       weeks. Stack Overflow lets you vote up common/useful questions,
>       and edit the entries over time. E.g. if the approach to how you
>       integrate LDAP with Plone changes, you can edit the highest rated
>       question on LDAP to reflect the new approach. Another very useful
>       feature is duplicate detection; if you try to ask a new question
>       on a particular subject, it will do a search in the background to
>       dig up other questions that look similar, so you may not have to
>       post your question at all.
>     * *Visibility to other ecosystems:* There's a lot of frustrated .NET
>       and Java programmers on Stack Overflow, and a lot of them are
>       working with CMSes that we can outclass any day. Showing that
>       there's a vibrant, healthy and helpful Plone community in a system
>       that has other developers has a lot of benefits for our visibility
>       and future recruiting. Plone has a tendency to stay within its own
>       circle, and that's something we want to change.
>     * *Support notification about answers to your question without
>       having to subscribe to the whole thing:* Stack Overflow lets you
>       be notified via email when there's an answer to your question.
>     * *Make it easier to spend a couple of minutes every day answering
>       questions:* Even if you're busy, it should be possible to swing by
>       your RSS reader or the web site for a few minutes each day, and
>       pick an unanswered question to help out with. I know that most of
>       the core Plone developers are not subscribed to plone-users
>       anymore, because it ends up just collecting in a mail folder
>       somewhere.
>
> To get off to a good start with Stack Overflow, we should probably do
> two things:
>
>     * Identify 10-20 commonly asked and answered questions from
>       plone-users, and post them — and add answers.
>     * *Please add http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag/plone to your RSS
>       reader — at least for the next couple of weeks — so we get off to
>       a good start with answering questions there.
>       *
>
> We hope you're as excited about these changes as we are! Let us know
> what you think, and if you find any issues with the new templates.
>
> Special thanks to Iain for some of the designs, and the Cioppino
> sprinters (Trish, Tyler, David Glick, Steve McMahon, Alex Clark) for
> getting this long overdue refresh started!
>
> --
> Alexander Limi · http://twitter.com/limi · http://limi.net
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
> Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
> Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
> Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Plone-developers mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers


--
Alex Clark · http://aclark.net/help-me-help-plone


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
_______________________________________________
Plone-developers mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers
Steve McMahon Steve McMahon
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Re: Upcoming changes to plone.org

IMHO, if the design only allows for five books to be featured, they need to be chosen strategically. We want to simultaneously represent that Plone is 1) easy to learn for content creators, editors and site managers; 2) well-documented for development; 3) strong in our key markets. Quite frankly, I'd rather the featured books be chosen by the communications team (aka marketing) than anyone else.



On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Alex Clark <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 2/19/11 5:47 AM, Alexander Limi wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Wanted to give you a heads-up on some changes we will probably push live
> on plone.org <http://plone.org> in the near future — and get your
> feedback before we do! :)


Very nice work! Thanks for putting so much time and effort into this.


>
> *
> NEW LAYOUT FOR THE DOCUMENTATION FRONT PAGE:*
>
>     * Current: http://plone.org/documentation
>     * New: http://plone.org/documentation/ndocs
>
> /The reasons for the change, and what this means:/*
> *
>
>     * Less "wall of text", more obvious where to start.
>     * Stronger focus on "New to Plone" section.
>     * New second-level navigation to highlight FAQ, Knowledge Base and
>       Error Reference, reinforced later in the front page, since
>       navigation is often tuned out by first-time visitors.
>     * Prominent book display in the sidebar to show that there are many
>       books available for Plone.


What's the criteria for book listings? I'd suggest we do chronological,
unless some other reasonably fair way can be implemented (E.g. I suspect
if given the choice, every book author would list their book first ;-)).

Alternatively, maybe something like cioppino.twothumbs could be applied
to books.


Alex



>     * Sidebar bubble with "Get Help" that leads to the Support section.
>     * Less intimidating — and good looking! (I might be biased ;)
>
> *
> NEW LAYOUT/APPROACH FOR THE KNOWLEDGE BASE:*
>
>     * Current: http://plone.org/documentation/kb
>     * New: http://plone.org/documentation/ndocs1
>
> /The reasons for the change, and what this means:/*
> *
>
>     * The old page is close to unusable, and very intimidating — it's
>       just page after page of links that lead to more pages with even
>       more links. :)
>     * The new approach pulls out the main topics, and *lists the starred
>       KB articles in each section*. This means that you get the most
>       valuable content up front, but you can still dig into the full
>       list of community-contributed knowledge base articles.
>     * The main interface with the KB should really be search, but we
>       still want to support browsing — which is why we use an accordion
>       to show a limited set of content at the same time. The main goal
>       is to give you a flavor of what kind of content exists in the
>       different sections, and to let you investigate deeper if you want
>       — or ust go straight for the search box.
>     * There's still some work to do on adjusting permissions, but
>       (unless I'm wrong) the idea for contributing to the knowledge base is:
>           o Anyone that has commit privileges to Plone or the Collective
>             can automatically add and edit content without further approval.
>           o You can also ask for permission to edit content separately
>             if you aren't already in one of these groups. The Docs team
>             will add you to a contributor group.
>           o Anyone should be able to add a new knowledge base article,
>             but it'll require an initial review before you are allowed
>             to have your first article published. Once you have had one
>             article approved, you have permissions to add and edit
>             articles in the knowledge base. (I don't think this is
>             currently the case, but we'd like to lower the barrier here
>             as much as we can).
>
> *
> NEW LAYOUT & APPROACH FOR THE SUPPORT SECTION:*
>
>     * Current: http://plone.org/support
>     * New: http://plone.org/support/support_view
>
> /The reasons for the change, and what this means:/*
> *
>
>     * The old page is really hard to navigate. Again, classic "wall of
>       text", hard to find the link you're looking for.
>     * We're putting an experiment with using Stack Overflow as the main
>       support mechanism, alongside the Chat Room.
>     * We're making the Commercial Support option very prominent, which
>       will hopefully get more people in touch with the Plone companies
>       out there when they need them. We're also busy updating and
>       improving the Provider and Site listings now that they have been
>       moved over to plone.org <http://plone.org> from plone.net
>       <http://plone.net>. We're excited to make this content integrate
>       better with the rest of plone.org <http://plone.org>!
>     * Local User Groups and Training are more visible in the new layout.
>     * We /are/ deprioritizing the links to Nabble and the mailing lists
>       on purpose, since it's a pretty horrible first experience for
>       someone looking for help. We're keeping the links in the footer —
>       and of course we're not removing or shutting down any of the lists
>       — but most people are looking for help, not the Plone Core
>       Developer list or the Internationalization list. These are mostly
>       relevant once you've been using Plone for a while, and at that
>       point you'll either go looking for them, or have them pointed out
>       to you by others anyway.
>
> Using Stack Overflow for Plone support is *an experiment we want to do
> for 2-3 months *and evaluate how well it worked at the end of it. The
> benefits we're looking for specifically are:
>
>     * *Convenience:* Mailing lists and Nabble subscription processes are
>       time-consuming and complicated if you want to ask a quick
>       question. Stack Overflow lets you log in with your OpenID, Google,
>       Facebook, Yahoo, etc. account.
>     * *Reputation management: *On a mailing list, it's hard to tell
>       whether the advice you just got was from someone who has been
>       around in the Plone community for a while, or someone that
>       probably has no idea what they're talking about. Stack Overflow
>       has a reputation and badge system that gives you a pretty good
>       idea of who to listen to.
>     * *Avoid getting the same questions all the time:* It's pretty
>       common that people ask the same questions on plone-users every few
>       weeks. Stack Overflow lets you vote up common/useful questions,
>       and edit the entries over time. E.g. if the approach to how you
>       integrate LDAP with Plone changes, you can edit the highest rated
>       question on LDAP to reflect the new approach. Another very useful
>       feature is duplicate detection; if you try to ask a new question
>       on a particular subject, it will do a search in the background to
>       dig up other questions that look similar, so you may not have to
>       post your question at all.
>     * *Visibility to other ecosystems:* There's a lot of frustrated .NET
>       and Java programmers on Stack Overflow, and a lot of them are
>       working with CMSes that we can outclass any day. Showing that
>       there's a vibrant, healthy and helpful Plone community in a system
>       that has other developers has a lot of benefits for our visibility
>       and future recruiting. Plone has a tendency to stay within its own
>       circle, and that's something we want to change.
>     * *Support notification about answers to your question without
>       having to subscribe to the whole thing:* Stack Overflow lets you
>       be notified via email when there's an answer to your question.
>     * *Make it easier to spend a couple of minutes every day answering
>       questions:* Even if you're busy, it should be possible to swing by
>       your RSS reader or the web site for a few minutes each day, and
>       pick an unanswered question to help out with. I know that most of
>       the core Plone developers are not subscribed to plone-users
>       anymore, because it ends up just collecting in a mail folder
>       somewhere.
>
> To get off to a good start with Stack Overflow, we should probably do
> two things:
>
>     * Identify 10-20 commonly asked and answered questions from
>       plone-users, and post them — and add answers.
>     * *Please add http://stackoverflow.com/feeds/tag/plone to your RSS
>       reader — at least for the next couple of weeks — so we get off to
>       a good start with answering questions there.
>       *
>
> We hope you're as excited about these changes as we are! Let us know
> what you think, and if you find any issues with the new templates.
>
> Special thanks to Iain for some of the designs, and the Cioppino
> sprinters (Trish, Tyler, David Glick, Steve McMahon, Alex Clark) for
> getting this long overdue refresh started!
>
> --
> Alexander Limi · http://twitter.com/limi · http://limi.net
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
> Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
> Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
> Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Plone-developers mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers


--
Alex Clark · http://aclark.net/help-me-help-plone


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
_______________________________________________
Plone-developers mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
_______________________________________________
Plone-developers mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers
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