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Elizabeth Leddy-2 Elizabeth Leddy-2
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Feedback on PLIPS

Hey Plone!

The Framework Team is trying like crazy to make the PLIP process more friendly and we really want your feedback. If you can take 5 minutes to respond either publicly or in private it would help us a lot. Any feedback is welcome, and in particular we want to know...

- If you haven't submitted a PLIP before, why not?
- If you have submitted before but won't every again, why not?
- Does your company support contributing to core via PLIPs? If they don't, could they be motivated with plone.org sponsorship or something (that we currently have no power to authorize but could work on )?
- If you have gone through the new or old PLIP process, what did you like? what could we do better?
- Are you aware of our PLIP sponsor process? Would you be willing to help the framework team by just sponsoring a PLIP: providing guidance and feedback to new PLIP contributors?

Just FYI, we know there are some serious shortcomings in documentation and expectations and are currently working on that. We really care about the process and will take any feedback to heart.

Happy Tuesday!

Liz
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Re: Feedback on PLIPS

Hi,

I've felt some frustrations with the PLIP process. Feedback is often  
given too late in the process.
It kind of feels too gate driven where advice is only available at the  
same point where a go or no go decision has to be made. I think this  
process leads those less familar with the framework producing things  
which aren't going to be acceptable and then having to rework it again  
and again.
If there was more guidance by available during the whole process this  
might not happen.
I know this sounds like more burden for already overstretched senior  
core developers but on the other hand, the more friendly we make  
process of someone working on their first PLIP, the more senior core  
developers we might get long term.
Just my 2c.




---
Dylan Jay
Technical Solutions Manager
PretaWeb: Multisite Performance Support
P: +612 80819071 | M: +61421477460 | twitter.com/djay75 | linkedin.com/
in/djay75

On 15/02/2012, at 6:45 AM, Elizabeth Leddy wrote:

> Hey Plone!
>
> The Framework Team is trying like crazy to make the PLIP process  
> more friendly and we really want your feedback. If you can take 5  
> minutes to respond either publicly or in private it would help us a  
> lot. Any feedback is welcome, and in particular we want to know...
>
> - If you haven't submitted a PLIP before, why not?
> - If you have submitted before but won't every again, why not?
> - Does your company support contributing to core via PLIPs? If they  
> don't, could they be motivated with plone.org sponsorship or  
> something (that we currently have no power to authorize but could  
> work on )?
> - If you have gone through the new or old PLIP process, what did you  
> like? what could we do better?
> - Are you aware of our PLIP sponsor process? Would you be willing to  
> help the framework team by just sponsoring a PLIP: providing  
> guidance and feedback to new PLIP contributors?
>
> Just FYI, we know there are some serious shortcomings in  
> documentation and expectations and are currently working on that. We  
> really care about the process and will take any feedback to heart.
>
> Happy Tuesday!
>
> Liz
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow!
> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft  
> developers
> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3,  
> MVC3,
> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d
> _______________________________________________
> Plone-developers mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers


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Re: Feedback on PLIPS

On 15 February 2012 23:46, Dylan Jay <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've felt some frustrations with the PLIP process. Feedback is often
> given too late in the process.
> It kind of feels too gate driven where advice is only available at the
> same point where a go or no go decision has to be made. I think this
> process leads those less familar with the framework producing things
> which aren't going to be acceptable and then having to rework it again
> and again.
> If there was more guidance by available during the whole process this
> might not happen.
> I know this sounds like more burden for already overstretched senior
> core developers but on the other hand, the more friendly we make
> process of someone working on their first PLIP, the more senior core
> developers we might get long term.
> Just my 2c.

I think this is fair comment. Perhaps we can encourage more
experienced developers to volunteer as PLIP seconders / mentors. This
might be a more bounded and easier commitment than volunteering for
the FWT. We could certainly do more experienced developers helping out
as the FWT seems quite overloaded at the moment.

Laurence

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Re: Feedback on PLIPS


On 16/02/2012, at 11:03 AM, Laurence Rowe wrote:

> On 15 February 2012 23:46, Dylan Jay <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I've felt some frustrations with the PLIP process. Feedback is often
>> given too late in the process.
>> It kind of feels too gate driven where advice is only available at  
>> the
>> same point where a go or no go decision has to be made. I think this
>> process leads those less familar with the framework producing things
>> which aren't going to be acceptable and then having to rework it  
>> again
>> and again.
>> If there was more guidance by available during the whole process this
>> might not happen.
>> I know this sounds like more burden for already overstretched senior
>> core developers but on the other hand, the more friendly we make
>> process of someone working on their first PLIP, the more senior core
>> developers we might get long term.
>> Just my 2c.
>
> I think this is fair comment. Perhaps we can encourage more
> experienced developers to volunteer as PLIP seconders / mentors. This
> might be a more bounded and easier commitment than volunteering for
> the FWT. We could certainly do more experienced developers helping out
> as the FWT seems quite overloaded at the moment.

Maybe if mentors were expected to have a more involved role rather  
than just ratifying the idea. Like meet once a week or be available to  
bounce ideas off, or do code reviews as the implementation progresses?  
A kind of "plone architecture buddy".
Obviously this would be optional. Only for implementers that think  
they need it.


>
> Laurence


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Re: Feedback on PLIPS

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 12:29 AM, Dylan Jay <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 16/02/2012, at 11:03 AM, Laurence Rowe wrote:
>
>> On 15 February 2012 23:46, Dylan Jay <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I've felt some frustrations with the PLIP process. Feedback is often
>>> given too late in the process.
>>> It kind of feels too gate driven where advice is only available at
>>> the
>>> same point where a go or no go decision has to be made. I think this
>>> process leads those less familar with the framework producing things
>>> which aren't going to be acceptable and then having to rework it
>>> again
>>> and again.
>>> If there was more guidance by available during the whole process this
>>> might not happen.
>>> I know this sounds like more burden for already overstretched senior
>>> core developers but on the other hand, the more friendly we make
>>> process of someone working on their first PLIP, the more senior core
>>> developers we might get long term.
>>> Just my 2c.
>>
>> I think this is fair comment. Perhaps we can encourage more
>> experienced developers to volunteer as PLIP seconders / mentors. This
>> might be a more bounded and easier commitment than volunteering for
>> the FWT. We could certainly do more experienced developers helping out
>> as the FWT seems quite overloaded at the moment.
>
> Maybe if mentors were expected to have a more involved role rather
> than just ratifying the idea. Like meet once a week or be available to
> bounce ideas off, or do code reviews as the implementation progresses?
> A kind of "plone architecture buddy".
> Obviously this would be optional. Only for implementers that think
> they need it.

I think this is a fantastic idea.  As well all know from sprinting,
teamwork/mentorship is a fantastic way to learn quickly.  +100 Plone
Spirit points. :-)

:jon

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Re: Feedback on PLIPS

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In reply to this post by Elizabeth Leddy-2
This sounds great :)
Oferujemy kartony, które pomogą w tobie pakunku. Mamy również opakowania tekturowe.
Elizabeth Leddy-2 Elizabeth Leddy-2
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Re: Feedback on PLIPS

In reply to this post by JonStahl


On Feb 15, 2012, at 9:22 PM, Jon Stahl wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 12:29 AM, Dylan Jay <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 16/02/2012, at 11:03 AM, Laurence Rowe wrote:
>>
>>> On 15 February 2012 23:46, Dylan Jay <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I've felt some frustrations with the PLIP process. Feedback is often
>>>> given too late in the process.
>>>> It kind of feels too gate driven where advice is only available at
>>>> the
>>>> same point where a go or no go decision has to be made. I think this
>>>> process leads those less familar with the framework producing things
>>>> which aren't going to be acceptable and then having to rework it
>>>> again
>>>> and again.
>>>> If there was more guidance by available during the whole process this
>>>> might not happen.
>>>> I know this sounds like more burden for already overstretched senior
>>>> core developers but on the other hand, the more friendly we make
>>>> process of someone working on their first PLIP, the more senior core
>>>> developers we might get long term.
>>>> Just my 2c.
>>>
>>> I think this is fair comment. Perhaps we can encourage more
>>> experienced developers to volunteer as PLIP seconders / mentors. This
>>> might be a more bounded and easier commitment than volunteering for
>>> the FWT. We could certainly do more experienced developers helping out
>>> as the FWT seems quite overloaded at the moment.
>>
>> Maybe if mentors were expected to have a more involved role rather
>> than just ratifying the idea. Like meet once a week or be available to
>> bounce ideas off, or do code reviews as the implementation progresses?
>> A kind of "plone architecture buddy".
>> Obviously this would be optional. Only for implementers that think
>> they need it.
>
> I think this is a fantastic idea.  As well all know from sprinting,
> teamwork/mentorship is a fantastic way to learn quickly.  +100 Plone
> Spirit points. :-)

I think this could be even broadened out to anyone who wants to participate in plone. A lot of people contact me personally off list for help because they are nervous. Can we set up a general mentoring program perhaps?

Liz

>
> :jon
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
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> _______________________________________________
> Plone-developers mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers


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Re: Feedback on PLIPS

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 2:22 PM, Elizabeth Leddy
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On Feb 15, 2012, at 9:22 PM, Jon Stahl wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 12:29 AM, Dylan Jay <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 16/02/2012, at 11:03 AM, Laurence Rowe wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 15 February 2012 23:46, Dylan Jay <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I've felt some frustrations with the PLIP process. Feedback is often
>>>>> given too late in the process.
>>>>> It kind of feels too gate driven where advice is only available at
>>>>> the
>>>>> same point where a go or no go decision has to be made. I think this
>>>>> process leads those less familar with the framework producing things
>>>>> which aren't going to be acceptable and then having to rework it
>>>>> again
>>>>> and again.
>>>>> If there was more guidance by available during the whole process this
>>>>> might not happen.
>>>>> I know this sounds like more burden for already overstretched senior
>>>>> core developers but on the other hand, the more friendly we make
>>>>> process of someone working on their first PLIP, the more senior core
>>>>> developers we might get long term.
>>>>> Just my 2c.
>>>>
>>>> I think this is fair comment. Perhaps we can encourage more
>>>> experienced developers to volunteer as PLIP seconders / mentors. This
>>>> might be a more bounded and easier commitment than volunteering for
>>>> the FWT. We could certainly do more experienced developers helping out
>>>> as the FWT seems quite overloaded at the moment.
>>>
>>> Maybe if mentors were expected to have a more involved role rather
>>> than just ratifying the idea. Like meet once a week or be available to
>>> bounce ideas off, or do code reviews as the implementation progresses?
>>> A kind of "plone architecture buddy".
>>> Obviously this would be optional. Only for implementers that think
>>> they need it.
>>
>> I think this is a fantastic idea.  As well all know from sprinting,
>> teamwork/mentorship is a fantastic way to learn quickly.  +100 Plone
>> Spirit points. :-)
>
> I think this could be even broadened out to anyone who wants to participate in plone. A lot of people contact me personally off list for help because they are nervous. Can we set up a general mentoring program perhaps?

I agree, it would be lovely to see a general mentoring program.  I
suppose all we need to make it happen is:

- A written set of expectations/guidelines that define the "committment"
- A set of experienced devs willing to mentor
- A page on Plone.org to list 'em
- Some process for folks to express interesting in being mentored
(perhaps via new category of Trac ticket) and to get matched.

I'm willing to help set up the process (interested in co-piloting,
Liz?) if there are enough people willing to serve as mentors to make
it worthwhile.  Show of hands anyone?

:jon

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Re: Feedback on PLIPS

On 17 February 2012 21:59, Jon Stahl <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 2:22 PM, Elizabeth Leddy
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Feb 15, 2012, at 9:22 PM, Jon Stahl wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 12:29 AM, Dylan Jay <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 16/02/2012, at 11:03 AM, Laurence Rowe wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 15 February 2012 23:46, Dylan Jay <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've felt some frustrations with the PLIP process. Feedback is often
>>>>>> given too late in the process.
>>>>>> It kind of feels too gate driven where advice is only available at
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> same point where a go or no go decision has to be made. I think this
>>>>>> process leads those less familar with the framework producing things
>>>>>> which aren't going to be acceptable and then having to rework it
>>>>>> again
>>>>>> and again.
>>>>>> If there was more guidance by available during the whole process this
>>>>>> might not happen.
>>>>>> I know this sounds like more burden for already overstretched senior
>>>>>> core developers but on the other hand, the more friendly we make
>>>>>> process of someone working on their first PLIP, the more senior core
>>>>>> developers we might get long term.
>>>>>> Just my 2c.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think this is fair comment. Perhaps we can encourage more
>>>>> experienced developers to volunteer as PLIP seconders / mentors. This
>>>>> might be a more bounded and easier commitment than volunteering for
>>>>> the FWT. We could certainly do more experienced developers helping out
>>>>> as the FWT seems quite overloaded at the moment.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe if mentors were expected to have a more involved role rather
>>>> than just ratifying the idea. Like meet once a week or be available to
>>>> bounce ideas off, or do code reviews as the implementation progresses?
>>>> A kind of "plone architecture buddy".
>>>> Obviously this would be optional. Only for implementers that think
>>>> they need it.
>>>
>>> I think this is a fantastic idea.  As well all know from sprinting,
>>> teamwork/mentorship is a fantastic way to learn quickly.  +100 Plone
>>> Spirit points. :-)
>>
>> I think this could be even broadened out to anyone who wants to participate in plone. A lot of people contact me personally off list for help because they are nervous. Can we set up a general mentoring program perhaps?
>
> I agree, it would be lovely to see a general mentoring program.  I
> suppose all we need to make it happen is:
>
> - A written set of expectations/guidelines that define the "committment"
> - A set of experienced devs willing to mentor
> - A page on Plone.org to list 'em
> - Some process for folks to express interesting in being mentored
> (perhaps via new category of Trac ticket) and to get matched.
>
> I'm willing to help set up the process (interested in co-piloting,
> Liz?) if there are enough people willing to serve as mentors to make
> it worthwhile.  Show of hands anyone?

Browsing though python-dev I came across a plug for http://pythonmentors.com/

Also worth looking at the original proposal:
http://jessenoller.com/2011/03/25/just-proposed-python-core-mentorship-program/
with link to the python-dev discussion.

Their code of conduct is on the site front page.

Laurence

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Re: Feedback on PLIPS

In reply to this post by Elizabeth Leddy-2
On 17/02/2012, at 9:22 AM, Elizabeth Leddy wrote:

>
>
> On Feb 15, 2012, at 9:22 PM, Jon Stahl wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 12:29 AM, Dylan Jay <[hidden email]>  
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 16/02/2012, at 11:03 AM, Laurence Rowe wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 15 February 2012 23:46, Dylan Jay <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I've felt some frustrations with the PLIP process. Feedback is  
>>>>> often
>>>>> given too late in the process.
>>>>> It kind of feels too gate driven where advice is only available at
>>>>> the
>>>>> same point where a go or no go decision has to be made. I think  
>>>>> this
>>>>> process leads those less familar with the framework producing  
>>>>> things
>>>>> which aren't going to be acceptable and then having to rework it
>>>>> again
>>>>> and again.
>>>>> If there was more guidance by available during the whole process  
>>>>> this
>>>>> might not happen.
>>>>> I know this sounds like more burden for already overstretched  
>>>>> senior
>>>>> core developers but on the other hand, the more friendly we make
>>>>> process of someone working on their first PLIP, the more senior  
>>>>> core
>>>>> developers we might get long term.
>>>>> Just my 2c.
>>>>
>>>> I think this is fair comment. Perhaps we can encourage more
>>>> experienced developers to volunteer as PLIP seconders / mentors.  
>>>> This
>>>> might be a more bounded and easier commitment than volunteering for
>>>> the FWT. We could certainly do more experienced developers  
>>>> helping out
>>>> as the FWT seems quite overloaded at the moment.
>>>
>>> Maybe if mentors were expected to have a more involved role rather
>>> than just ratifying the idea. Like meet once a week or be  
>>> available to
>>> bounce ideas off, or do code reviews as the implementation  
>>> progresses?
>>> A kind of "plone architecture buddy".
>>> Obviously this would be optional. Only for implementers that think
>>> they need it.
>>
>> I think this is a fantastic idea.  As well all know from sprinting,
>> teamwork/mentorship is a fantastic way to learn quickly.  +100 Plone
>> Spirit points. :-)
>
> I think this could be even broadened out to anyone who wants to  
> participate in plone. A lot of people contact me personally off list  
> for help because they are nervous. Can we set up a general mentoring  
> program perhaps?

As long as we don't run out of mentors :) When someone is doing their  
first PLIP is where the greatest need is I think.

>
> Liz
>
>>
>> :jon
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
>> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
>> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Plone-developers mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers
>


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Re: Feedback on PLIPS

On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Dylan Jay <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 17/02/2012, at 9:22 AM, Elizabeth Leddy wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 15, 2012, at 9:22 PM, Jon Stahl wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 12:29 AM, Dylan Jay <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 16/02/2012, at 11:03 AM, Laurence Rowe wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 15 February 2012 23:46, Dylan Jay <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've felt some frustrations with the PLIP process. Feedback is often
>>>>>> given too late in the process.
>>>>>> It kind of feels too gate driven where advice is only available at
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> same point where a go or no go decision has to be made. I think this
>>>>>> process leads those less familar with the framework producing things
>>>>>> which aren't going to be acceptable and then having to rework it
>>>>>> again
>>>>>> and again.
>>>>>> If there was more guidance by available during the whole process this
>>>>>> might not happen.
>>>>>> I know this sounds like more burden for already overstretched senior
>>>>>> core developers but on the other hand, the more friendly we make
>>>>>> process of someone working on their first PLIP, the more senior core
>>>>>> developers we might get long term.
>>>>>> Just my 2c.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think this is fair comment. Perhaps we can encourage more
>>>>> experienced developers to volunteer as PLIP seconders / mentors. This
>>>>> might be a more bounded and easier commitment than volunteering for
>>>>> the FWT. We could certainly do more experienced developers helping out
>>>>> as the FWT seems quite overloaded at the moment.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Maybe if mentors were expected to have a more involved role rather
>>>> than just ratifying the idea. Like meet once a week or be available to
>>>> bounce ideas off, or do code reviews as the implementation progresses?
>>>> A kind of "plone architecture buddy".
>>>> Obviously this would be optional. Only for implementers that think
>>>> they need it.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think this is a fantastic idea.  As well all know from sprinting,
>>> teamwork/mentorship is a fantastic way to learn quickly.  +100 Plone
>>> Spirit points. :-)
>>
>>
>> I think this could be even broadened out to anyone who wants to
>> participate in plone. A lot of people contact me personally off list for
>> help because they are nervous. Can we set up a general mentoring program
>> perhaps?
>
>
> As long as we don't run out of mentors :) When someone is doing their first
> PLIP is where the greatest need is I think.

Indeed, I think once you've landed a substantial PLIP or two in the
core, then you're qualified to be a mentor yourself! :-)

:jon

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Re: [Plone-Users] Feedback on PLIPS

In reply to this post by Elizabeth Leddy-2
In terms of getting feedback for plips what's the policy on
communicating what plips have been pencilled in for what release?

e.g. A quick email to the plone developers each time a PLIP is
accepted would help me understand what changes are being proposed
early enough to contribute something to the requirements or (less
likely) technical design.

This seems to happen only rarely.

On 18 February 2012 20:50, Ross Patterson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Alex Clark <[hidden email]> writes:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> On 2/14/12 2:45 PM, Elizabeth Leddy wrote:
>>> Hey Plone!
>>>
>>> The Framework Team is trying like crazy to make the PLIP process
>>> more friendly and we really want your feedback. If you can take 5
>>> minutes to respond either publicly or in private it would help us a
>>> lot. Any feedback is welcome, and in particular we want to know...
>>>
>>> - If you haven't submitted a PLIP before, why not?
>>> - If you have submitted before but won't every again, why not?
>>> - Does your company support contributing to core via PLIPs? If they
>>> don't, could they be motivated with plone.org sponsorship or
>>> something (that we currently have no power to authorize but could
>>> work on )?
>>> - If you have gone through the new or old PLIP process, what did you
>>> like? what could we do better?
>
> {...snip...}
>
>> - Make sure people know how much work is actually required to get a PLIP
>> accepted, and to have their feature added to Plone. Each small featured
>> addition I worked on easily took me 8-16 hours. Possibly as much as
>> 20-40 hours. It's a big commitment. It could have gone quicker for more
>> experienced programmers, but not by much. There is a lot of complexity
>> to manage even for very small features.
>
> Thanks for pointing this out.  I think it's important to communicate
> this to PLIP authors and implementers wherever we document
> expectations.
>
> Ross
>
>>> - Are you aware of our PLIP sponsor process? Would you be willing to
>>> help the framework team by just sponsoring a PLIP: providing
>>> guidance and feedback to new PLIP contributors?
>>>
>>> Just FYI, we know there are some serious shortcomings in
>>> documentation and expectations and are currently working on that. We
>>> really care about the process and will take any feedback to heart.
>>>
>>> Happy Tuesday!
>>>
>>> Liz
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow!
>>> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
>>> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
>>> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
> _______________________________________________
> Plone-Users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-users

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Re: [Plone-Users] Feedback on PLIPS

On the ticket for a PLIP., there is field indicating which release it
is targeting.  And the comments will show you where it is in the
process from proposal > implementation > accepted > merged.


On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 9:30 AM, Anthony Gerrard
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> In terms of getting feedback for plips what's the policy on
> communicating what plips have been pencilled in for what release?
>
> e.g. A quick email to the plone developers each time a PLIP is
> accepted would help me understand what changes are being proposed
> early enough to contribute something to the requirements or (less
> likely) technical design.
>
> This seems to happen only rarely.
>
> On 18 February 2012 20:50, Ross Patterson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Alex Clark <[hidden email]> writes:
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> On 2/14/12 2:45 PM, Elizabeth Leddy wrote:
>>>> Hey Plone!
>>>>
>>>> The Framework Team is trying like crazy to make the PLIP process
>>>> more friendly and we really want your feedback. If you can take 5
>>>> minutes to respond either publicly or in private it would help us a
>>>> lot. Any feedback is welcome, and in particular we want to know...
>>>>
>>>> - If you haven't submitted a PLIP before, why not?
>>>> - If you have submitted before but won't every again, why not?
>>>> - Does your company support contributing to core via PLIPs? If they
>>>> don't, could they be motivated with plone.org sponsorship or
>>>> something (that we currently have no power to authorize but could
>>>> work on )?
>>>> - If you have gone through the new or old PLIP process, what did you
>>>> like? what could we do better?
>>
>> {...snip...}
>>
>>> - Make sure people know how much work is actually required to get a PLIP
>>> accepted, and to have their feature added to Plone. Each small featured
>>> addition I worked on easily took me 8-16 hours. Possibly as much as
>>> 20-40 hours. It's a big commitment. It could have gone quicker for more
>>> experienced programmers, but not by much. There is a lot of complexity
>>> to manage even for very small features.
>>
>> Thanks for pointing this out.  I think it's important to communicate
>> this to PLIP authors and implementers wherever we document
>> expectations.
>>
>> Ross
>>
>>>> - Are you aware of our PLIP sponsor process? Would you be willing to
>>>> help the framework team by just sponsoring a PLIP: providing
>>>> guidance and feedback to new PLIP contributors?
>>>>
>>>> Just FYI, we know there are some serious shortcomings in
>>>> documentation and expectations and are currently working on that. We
>>>> really care about the process and will take any feedback to heart.
>>>>
>>>> Happy Tuesday!
>>>>
>>>> Liz
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow!
>>>> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
>>>> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
>>>> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
>> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
>> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Plone-Users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-users
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
> _______________________________________________
> Plone-developers mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
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Re: [Plone-Users] Feedback on PLIPS

That involves me pro-actively monitoring the issue tracker.  I was
suggesting an email to the developers list would be more likely to
gather feedback

On 23 February 2012 18:29, Jon Stahl <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On the ticket for a PLIP., there is field indicating which release it
> is targeting.  And the comments will show you where it is in the
> process from proposal > implementation > accepted > merged.
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 9:30 AM, Anthony Gerrard
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> In terms of getting feedback for plips what's the policy on
>> communicating what plips have been pencilled in for what release?
>>
>> e.g. A quick email to the plone developers each time a PLIP is
>> accepted would help me understand what changes are being proposed
>> early enough to contribute something to the requirements or (less
>> likely) technical design.
>>
>> This seems to happen only rarely.
>>
>> On 18 February 2012 20:50, Ross Patterson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Alex Clark <[hidden email]> writes:
>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> On 2/14/12 2:45 PM, Elizabeth Leddy wrote:
>>>>> Hey Plone!
>>>>>
>>>>> The Framework Team is trying like crazy to make the PLIP process
>>>>> more friendly and we really want your feedback. If you can take 5
>>>>> minutes to respond either publicly or in private it would help us a
>>>>> lot. Any feedback is welcome, and in particular we want to know...
>>>>>
>>>>> - If you haven't submitted a PLIP before, why not?
>>>>> - If you have submitted before but won't every again, why not?
>>>>> - Does your company support contributing to core via PLIPs? If they
>>>>> don't, could they be motivated with plone.org sponsorship or
>>>>> something (that we currently have no power to authorize but could
>>>>> work on )?
>>>>> - If you have gone through the new or old PLIP process, what did you
>>>>> like? what could we do better?
>>>
>>> {...snip...}
>>>
>>>> - Make sure people know how much work is actually required to get a PLIP
>>>> accepted, and to have their feature added to Plone. Each small featured
>>>> addition I worked on easily took me 8-16 hours. Possibly as much as
>>>> 20-40 hours. It's a big commitment. It could have gone quicker for more
>>>> experienced programmers, but not by much. There is a lot of complexity
>>>> to manage even for very small features.
>>>
>>> Thanks for pointing this out.  I think it's important to communicate
>>> this to PLIP authors and implementers wherever we document
>>> expectations.
>>>
>>> Ross
>>>
>>>>> - Are you aware of our PLIP sponsor process? Would you be willing to
>>>>> help the framework team by just sponsoring a PLIP: providing
>>>>> guidance and feedback to new PLIP contributors?
>>>>>
>>>>> Just FYI, we know there are some serious shortcomings in
>>>>> documentation and expectations and are currently working on that. We
>>>>> really care about the process and will take any feedback to heart.
>>>>>
>>>>> Happy Tuesday!
>>>>>
>>>>> Liz
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow!
>>>>> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
>>>>> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
>>>>> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
>>> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
>>> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
>>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Plone-Users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-users
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
>> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
>> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Plone-developers mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
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Re: [Plone-Users] Feedback on PLIPS

Great suggestion.

In the meantime, anyone who is interested can subscribe to the PLIP RSS feed at:

https://dev.plone.org/report/24?asc=1&format=rss

:jon

On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:13 AM, Anthony Gerrard
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> That involves me pro-actively monitoring the issue tracker.  I was
> suggesting an email to the developers list would be more likely to
> gather feedback
>
> On 23 February 2012 18:29, Jon Stahl <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On the ticket for a PLIP., there is field indicating which release it
>> is targeting.  And the comments will show you where it is in the
>> process from proposal > implementation > accepted > merged.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 9:30 AM, Anthony Gerrard
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> In terms of getting feedback for plips what's the policy on
>>> communicating what plips have been pencilled in for what release?
>>>
>>> e.g. A quick email to the plone developers each time a PLIP is
>>> accepted would help me understand what changes are being proposed
>>> early enough to contribute something to the requirements or (less
>>> likely) technical design.
>>>
>>> This seems to happen only rarely.
>>>
>>> On 18 February 2012 20:50, Ross Patterson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Alex Clark <[hidden email]> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/14/12 2:45 PM, Elizabeth Leddy wrote:
>>>>>> Hey Plone!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Framework Team is trying like crazy to make the PLIP process
>>>>>> more friendly and we really want your feedback. If you can take 5
>>>>>> minutes to respond either publicly or in private it would help us a
>>>>>> lot. Any feedback is welcome, and in particular we want to know...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - If you haven't submitted a PLIP before, why not?
>>>>>> - If you have submitted before but won't every again, why not?
>>>>>> - Does your company support contributing to core via PLIPs? If they
>>>>>> don't, could they be motivated with plone.org sponsorship or
>>>>>> something (that we currently have no power to authorize but could
>>>>>> work on )?
>>>>>> - If you have gone through the new or old PLIP process, what did you
>>>>>> like? what could we do better?
>>>>
>>>> {...snip...}
>>>>
>>>>> - Make sure people know how much work is actually required to get a PLIP
>>>>> accepted, and to have their feature added to Plone. Each small featured
>>>>> addition I worked on easily took me 8-16 hours. Possibly as much as
>>>>> 20-40 hours. It's a big commitment. It could have gone quicker for more
>>>>> experienced programmers, but not by much. There is a lot of complexity
>>>>> to manage even for very small features.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for pointing this out.  I think it's important to communicate
>>>> this to PLIP authors and implementers wherever we document
>>>> expectations.
>>>>
>>>> Ross
>>>>
>>>>>> - Are you aware of our PLIP sponsor process? Would you be willing to
>>>>>> help the framework team by just sponsoring a PLIP: providing
>>>>>> guidance and feedback to new PLIP contributors?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just FYI, we know there are some serious shortcomings in
>>>>>> documentation and expectations and are currently working on that. We
>>>>>> really care about the process and will take any feedback to heart.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Happy Tuesday!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Liz
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow!
>>>>>> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
>>>>>> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
>>>>>> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
>>>>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
>>>> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
>>>> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
>>>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Plone-Users mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-users
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
>>> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
>>> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
>>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Plone-developers mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-developers

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
_______________________________________________
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