ANN: ZopeSkel 2.19 Released

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cewing cewing
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ANN: ZopeSkel 2.19 Released

Apologies for cross-posting

I am pleased to announce that ZopeSkel 2.19 has been released on pypi and plone.org.  

In this release:
* improvements to the README documentation for the zopeskel package itself.
* Shiny new plone4_buildout template

Thanks to
thet
miohtama
gotcha

As always, any problems may be reported to the zopeskel issue tracker on plone.org:


Thanks very much, and enjoy!

c

********************************
Cris Ewing
Webmaster, Lead Developer
Department of Radiology Web Services
University of Washington
School of Medicine
Work Phone: (206) 616-1288
Cell Phone: (206) 708-9083
*******************************


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Re: ANN: ZopeSkel 2.19 Released

On 1/21/11 7:44 PM, Cristopher Ewing wrote:

> Apologies for cross-posting
>
> I am pleased to announce that ZopeSkel 2.19 has been released on pypi
> and plone.org <http://plone.org>.
>
> In this release:
> * improvements to the README documentation for the zopeskel package itself.
> * Shiny new plone4_buildout template
>
> Thanks to
> thet
> miohtama
> gotcha
>
> As always, any problems may be reported to the zopeskel issue tracker on
> plone.org <http://plone.org>:
>
> http://plone.org/products/zopeskel/issues
>
> Thanks very much, and enjoy!


Nice work Christopher, & all! It's good to see ZopeSkel getting some love.

Speaking of ZopeSkel, what's the status of templar.core? I can't help
but notice that one of the "blockers" for Pyramid 1.0 is a "sane set of
paster templates". This makes think even more that we need to factor out
some of the "developer blessed" templates from ZopeSkel and include them
in Plone core at some point. (Or create some developer blessed
templates). And IIRC templar.core will help with this.


Personally, I may plip something like this for 4.2, 4.3, or 5, but I
just wanted to see who else is thinking along the same lines.



Alex







>
> c
>
> ********************************
> Cris Ewing
> Webmaster, Lead Developer
> Department of Radiology Web Services
> University of Washington
> School of Medicine
> Work Phone: (206) 616-1288
> Cell Phone: (206) 708-9083
> E-mail: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> Web: http://www.rad.washington.edu
> *******************************
>


--
Alex Clark · http://aclark.net
Author · http://aclark.net/admin


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Re: ANN: ZopeSkel 2.19 Released

On 1/22/11 3:59 PM, Alex Clark wrote:

> On 1/21/11 7:44 PM, Cristopher Ewing wrote:
> Speaking of ZopeSkel, what's the status of templar.core? I can't help
> but notice that one of the "blockers" for Pyramid 1.0 is a "sane set of
> paster templates". This makes think even more that we need to factor out
> some of the "developer blessed" templates from ZopeSkel and include them
> in Plone core at some point. (Or create some developer blessed
> templates). And IIRC templar.core will help with this.
>
>
> Personally, I may plip something like this for 4.2, 4.3, or 5, but I
> just wanted to see who else is thinking along the same lines.
I like the idea in general. But how will be make sure that the templates
are maintained over time? I think having official but unmaintained
templates as part of core would be worse than having unofficial
templates in varying states of maintainedness like we do now.

Also, I think it's a challenge to determine what an official set of
templates should include. I think it would be most worthwhile to focus
on templates that are helpful to beginning Plone developers...the sort
that would show up in tutorial documentation. Anything more probably
gets into territory where developers have too many opinions for a
generic template to be very useful to very many people, I suspect.

David


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 [hidden email]
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Core-maintained paster templates (Was: Re: ANN: ZopeSkel 2.19 Released)

On 1/22/11 7:45 PM, David Glick wrote:

> On 1/22/11 3:59 PM, Alex Clark wrote:
>> On 1/21/11 7:44 PM, Cristopher Ewing wrote:
>> Speaking of ZopeSkel, what's the status of templar.core? I can't help
>> but notice that one of the "blockers" for Pyramid 1.0 is a "sane set of
>> paster templates". This makes think even more that we need to factor out
>> some of the "developer blessed" templates from ZopeSkel and include them
>> in Plone core at some point. (Or create some developer blessed
>> templates). And IIRC templar.core will help with this.
>>
>>
>> Personally, I may plip something like this for 4.2, 4.3, or 5, but I
>> just wanted to see who else is thinking along the same lines.
> I like the idea in general. But how will be make sure that the templates
> are maintained over time?

If we assume that being part of core guarantees a certain level of
quality, then the templates, if moved to core, would inherently benefit
from that guarantee (IOW, maintaining the templates becomes part of the
release process in one way or another. This is not unlike my other
"fantasy" that we will one day start shipping some basic set of
documentation with the Plone core.)


I think having official but unmaintained
> templates as part of core would be worse than having unofficial
> templates in varying states of maintainedness like we do now.

Maybe, but do large parts of the core currently go unmaintained? I'm
under the impression that everything that needs to be touched gets
touched. But I could be wrong.

>
> Also, I think it's a challenge to determine what an official set of
> templates should include. I think it would be most worthwhile to focus
> on templates that are helpful to beginning Plone developers...the sort
> that would show up in tutorial documentation. Anything more probably
> gets into territory where developers have too many opinions for a
> generic template to be very useful to very many people, I suspect.

Agreed. I suggest we start with the most basic set of templates for
beginners. If we assume Plone is a "CMS product", and that our target
audience is the Unified Installer consumer, then we might start with
something like the current "plone" paster template.

This would be something that allows beginners to easily create a
``my.package`` that would allow them to start doing *something*.

What they are likely to want to do first (aside from theming) is largely
subject to debate, but I'll throw out:

- create GS profiles, to save various TTW tweaks (and one of these days
   we really need to make Plone create packages and save profile
   exports directly to them.)

- Grok things (i.e. use five.grok to perform various customizations)

- Create browser views (perhaps to create ad hoc forms, or
   client-specific APIS, etc.) This is perhaps the most "natural"
   customization one can do these days.

- Create portlets & viewlets (I know there is already a separate
   portlet template, but I think the more relevant technologies we can
   demonstrate in a single core-maintained template the better.)


Alex








>
> David
>
>
> ----------
> David Glick
>   Web Developer
>   [hidden email]
>   206.286.1235x32
>
> Groundwire: You Are Connected
>   http://groundwire.org               
>
> Online tools and strategies for the environmental movement.  Sign up for Groundwire News!
>   http://groundwire.org/email-capture
>
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>   http://groundwire.org/resources/articles/2010-website-benchmarks-report
>
>
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--
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Author · http://aclark.net/admin


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Re: Core-maintained paster templates (Was: Re: ANN: ZopeSkel 2.19 Released)

On 1/22/11 5:25 PM, Alex Clark wrote:
> If we assume that being part of core guarantees a certain level of
> quality, then the templates, if moved to core, would inherently benefit
> from that guarantee (IOW, maintaining the templates becomes part of the
> release process in one way or another. This is not unlike my other
> "fantasy" that we will one day start shipping some basic set of
> documentation with the Plone core.)
I don't think putting something in core magically guarantees quality at
all.  I think the reverse should be true -- we should only let things
into core that have been proven to be quality.
> I think having official but unmaintained
>> templates as part of core would be worse than having unofficial
>> templates in varying states of maintainedness like we do now.
> Maybe, but do large parts of the core currently go unmaintained? I'm
> under the impression that everything that needs to be touched gets
> touched. But I could be wrong.
Those things in core that need to be touched get touched. But those of
us that do the touching already have more than enough to do. So we tend
to give attention to obvious bugs and broken tests, and everything else,
of which there is quite a bit, mostly gets left as it is without being
actively maintained. So unless we plan to have some process to ensure
that template would be kept up-to-date and functional, we should assume
that they will not be.

>> Also, I think it's a challenge to determine what an official set of
>> templates should include. I think it would be most worthwhile to focus
>> on templates that are helpful to beginning Plone developers...the sort
>> that would show up in tutorial documentation. Anything more probably
>> gets into territory where developers have too many opinions for a
>> generic template to be very useful to very many people, I suspect.
> Agreed. I suggest we start with the most basic set of templates for
> beginners. If we assume Plone is a "CMS product", and that our target
> audience is the Unified Installer consumer, then we might start with
> something like the current "plone" paster template.
>
> This would be something that allows beginners to easily create a
> ``my.package`` that would allow them to start doing *something*.
>
> What they are likely to want to do first (aside from theming) is largely
> subject to debate, but I'll throw out:
>
> - create GS profiles, to save various TTW tweaks (and one of these days
>    we really need to make Plone create packages and save profile
>    exports directly to them.)
>
> - Grok things (i.e. use five.grok to perform various customizations)
five.grok isn't part of core.
> - Create browser views (perhaps to create ad hoc forms, or
>    client-specific APIS, etc.) This is perhaps the most "natural"
>    customization one can do these days.
>
> - Create portlets & viewlets (I know there is already a separate
>    portlet template, but I think the more relevant technologies we can
>    demonstrate in a single core-maintained template the better.)



----------
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 [hidden email]
 206.286.1235x32

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Re: Core-maintained paster templates (Was: Re: ANN: ZopeSkel 2.19 Released)

On Jan 22, 2011, at 8:41 PM, David Glick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 1/22/11 5:25 PM, Alex Clark wrote:
>> If we assume that being part of core guarantees a certain level of
>> quality, then the templates, if moved to core, would inherently benefit
>> from that guarantee (IOW, maintaining the templates becomes part of the
>> release process in one way or another. This is not unlike my other
>> "fantasy" that we will one day start shipping some basic set of
>> documentation with the Plone core.)
> I don't think putting something in core magically guarantees quality at
> all.  I think the reverse should be true -- we should only let things
> into core that have been proven to be quality.

Agreed; in fact, the plip process mostly regulates this. And the
quality or fitness for inclusion is determined by the FWT on a plip by
plip basis. Zopeskel (which is really just a collection of Paster
templates plus friendly wrapper) has proven itself to be very useful
if not well maintained.

>> I think having official but unmaintained
>>> templates as part of core would be worse than having unofficial
>>> templates in varying states of maintainedness like we do now.
>> Maybe, but do large parts of the core currently go unmaintained? I'm
>> under the impression that everything that needs to be touched gets
>> touched. But I could be wrong.
> Those things in core that need to be touched get touched. But those of
> us that do the touching already have more than enough to do. So we tend
> to give attention to obvious bugs and broken tests, and everything else,
> of which there is quite a bit, mostly gets left as it is without being
> actively maintained. So unless we plan to have some process to ensure
> that template would be kept up-to-date and functional, we should assume
> that they will not be.

The process would be defined


Sure but that's nothing new.


>
>>> Also, I think it's a challenge to determine what an official set of
>>> templates should include. I think it would be most worthwhile to focus
>>> on templates that are helpful to beginning Plone developers...the sort
>>> that would show up in tutorial documentation. Anything more probably
>>> gets into territory where developers have too many opinions for a
>>> generic template to be very useful to very many people, I suspect.
>> Agreed. I suggest we start with the most basic set of templates for
>> beginners. If we assume Plone is a "CMS product", and that our target
>> audience is the Unified Installer consumer, then we might start with
>> something like the current "plone" paster template.
>>
>> This would be something that allows beginners to easily create a
>> ``my.package`` that would allow them to start doing *something*.
>>
>> What they are likely to want to do first (aside from theming) is largely
>> subject to debate, but I'll throw out:
>>
>> - create GS profiles, to save various TTW tweaks (and one of these days
>>   we really need to make Plone create packages and save profile
>>   exports directly to them.)
>>
>> - Grok things (i.e. use five.grok to perform various customizations)
> five.grok isn't part of core.
>> - Create browser views (perhaps to create ad hoc forms, or
>>   client-specific APIS, etc.) This is perhaps the most "natural"
>>   customization one can do these days.
>>
>> - Create portlets & viewlets (I know there is already a separate
>>   portlet template, but I think the more relevant technologies we can
>>   demonstrate in a single core-maintained template the better.)
>
>
>
> ----------
> David Glick
> Web Developer
> [hidden email]
> 206.286.1235x32
>
> Groundwire: You Are Connected
> http://groundwire.org
>
> Online tools and strategies for the environmental movement.  Sign up for Groundwire News!
> http://groundwire.org/email-capture
>
> Check out our 2010 Website Benchmarks Report. How do you stack up?
> http://groundwire.org/resources/articles/2010-website-benchmarks-report
>

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Re: Core-maintained paster templates (Was: Re: ANN: ZopeSkel 2.19 Released)

Stupid iPad! :-)

On Jan 22, 2011, at 8:56 PM, Alex Clark <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Jan 22, 2011, at 8:41 PM, David Glick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 1/22/11 5:25 PM, Alex Clark wrote:
>>> If we assume that being part of core guarantees a certain level of
>>> quality, then the templates, if moved to core, would inherently benefit
>>> from that guarantee (IOW, maintaining the templates becomes part of the
>>> release process in one way or another. This is not unlike my other
>>> "fantasy" that we will one day start shipping some basic set of
>>> documentation with the Plone core.)
>> I don't think putting something in core magically guarantees quality at
>> all.  I think the reverse should be true -- we should only let things
>> into core that have been proven to be quality.
>
> Agreed; in fact, the plip process mostly regulates this. And the
> quality or fitness for inclusion is determined by the FWT on a plip by
> plip basis. Zopeskel (which is really just a collection of Paster
> templates plus friendly wrapper) has proven itself to be very useful
> if not well maintained.
>
>>> I think having official but unmaintained
>>>> templates as part of core would be worse than having unofficial
>>>> templates in varying states of maintainedness like we do now.
>>> Maybe, but do large parts of the core currently go unmaintained? I'm
>>> under the impression that everything that needs to be touched gets
>>> touched. But I could be wrong.
>> Those things in core that need to be touched get touched. But those of
>> us that do the touching already have more than enough to do. So we tend
>> to give attention to obvious bugs and broken tests, and everything else,
>> of which there is quite a bit, mostly gets left as it is without being
>> actively maintained. So unless we plan to have some process to ensure
>> that template would be kept up-to-date and functional, we should assume
>> that they will not be.
>

Sure but that's nothing new. The process would be defined by the plip.
I would probably offer to maintain it at least through plone 5.


Alex


>
>
>
>
> T
>>
>>>> Also, I think it's a challenge to determine what an official set of
>>>> templates should include. I think it would be most worthwhile to focus
>>>> on templates that are helpful to beginning Plone developers...the sort
>>>> that would show up in tutorial documentation. Anything more probably
>>>> gets into territory where developers have too many opinions for a
>>>> generic template to be very useful to very many people, I suspect.
>>> Agreed. I suggest we start with the most basic set of templates for
>>> beginners. If we assume Plone is a "CMS product", and that our target
>>> audience is the Unified Installer consumer, then we might start with
>>> something like the current "plone" paster template.
>>>
>>> This would be something that allows beginners to easily create a
>>> ``my.package`` that would allow them to start doing *something*.
>>>
>>> What they are likely to want to do first (aside from theming) is largely
>>> subject to debate, but I'll throw out:
>>>
>>> - create GS profiles, to save various TTW tweaks (and one of these days
>>>  we really need to make Plone create packages and save profile
>>>  exports directly to them.)
>>>
>>> - Grok things (i.e. use five.grok to perform various customizations)
>> five.grok isn't part of core.
>>> - Create browser views (perhaps to create ad hoc forms, or
>>>  client-specific APIS, etc.) This is perhaps the most "natural"
>>>  customization one can do these days.
>>>
>>> - Create portlets & viewlets (I know there is already a separate
>>>  portlet template, but I think the more relevant technologies we can
>>>  demonstrate in a single core-maintained template the better.)
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------
>> David Glick
>> Web Developer
>> [hidden email]
>> 206.286.1235x32
>>
>> Groundwire: You Are Connected
>> http://groundwire.org
>>
>> Online tools and strategies for the environmental movement.  Sign up for Groundwire News!
>> http://groundwire.org/email-capture
>>
>> Check out our 2010 Website Benchmarks Report. How do you stack up?
>> http://groundwire.org/resources/articles/2010-website-benchmarks-report
>>

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Re: ANN: ZopeSkel 2.19 Released

In reply to this post by aclark
On 2011-1-23 00:59, Alex Clark wrote:

> On 1/21/11 7:44 PM, Cristopher Ewing wrote:
>> Apologies for cross-posting
>>
>> I am pleased to announce that ZopeSkel 2.19 has been released on pypi
>> and plone.org<http://plone.org>.
>>
>> In this release:
>> * improvements to the README documentation for the zopeskel package itself.
>> * Shiny new plone4_buildout template
>>
>> Thanks to
>> thet
>> miohtama
>> gotcha
>>
>> As always, any problems may be reported to the zopeskel issue tracker on
>> plone.org<http://plone.org>:
>>
>> http://plone.org/products/zopeskel/issues
>>
>> Thanks very much, and enjoy!
>
>
> Nice work Christopher,&  all! It's good to see ZopeSkel getting some love.
>
> Speaking of ZopeSkel, what's the status of templar.core? I can't help
> but notice that one of the "blockers" for Pyramid 1.0 is a "sane set of
> paster templates".

Pyramid itself will most likely only have one template without
conditionals though. Those 'sane set of paster templates' will be in an
optional extra package, and pyramid won't depend on it.

Wichert.


--
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http://www.wiggy.net/                  It is hard to make things simple.

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